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emeline Regular user 135 Posts |
Hi,
my website will be soon on line and I wanted to know : what we can't tell about coins magic ? what is a secret ? I don't want to create problems with my website so if I could know what is important not to tell, it will be great. thanks emeline |
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GeorgeSantos Inner circle San Diego, CA 1106 Posts |
Just no explantation of tricks, sleights, routines, effects and moves that you did not invent.
"David Roth is the greatest coin manipulator in the entire world.."
-Dai Vernon "The Professor" I AM A FILIPINO MAGICIAN |
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emeline Regular user 135 Posts |
Ok, thank you ! can I give some words of vocabulary ?
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
I'm sure as to what the full content of your site is but I think that you could do a glossary of terms used in coin magic as follows.
* Classic Palm - coin(s) are concealed in the palm of the hand. * Backpalm - coin(s) are brought behind the fingers of the hand and hidden. * False Pass/Transfer - coin(s) appear to be passed from one hand to the other but are not. Some false transfers are Shuttle Pass, Retention V.... You could point them in the right direction, maybe naming sleights and adding sources, but just don't blatantly reveal any published methods for doing them. |
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emeline Regular user 135 Posts |
I wanted to do as you said Jaz. Ex: Classic Palm - coin(s) are concealed in the palm of the hand. ( without any drawings to explain ) .
Thank you Jaz emeline: ps: I love your website ! continue ! |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
One might make it password protected on some parts of your site.
The real secrets are not just the sleights. I am rereading Carneys book on "The Real Secrets"... Anyone else seen this interesesting book. Although it does have some interesting coin routines his sharing on the magic behind the magic from some of the past greats is very enlightening. (At least to this nearly normal guy) Be safe, well and creative. Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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BlackShadow Special user London UK 666 Posts |
There's a lot of material available as general magical knowledge and in the public domain. I think people are most concerned about ripping off new routines and angles because they want to make money out of them. All fair enough I suppose, as they've invested a lot of time.
But, if you explain things like the french drop, pinch vanish, sleeving, basic transpos, classic routines etc I don't see how that could hurt anyone. It's more likley to encourage would-be students, which is great. As for passwords I wouldn't bother. Most of them are so lame, anybody could find them out if they wanted. Just have an entry page saying that the following pages are only for genuine students of magic. Anyone who is not a genuine student will soon be bored to hell by your two pages of technical descriptions text of some basic false transfer or other |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
It helps magic more that you do magic for real people in the real world, than offing the basics on a website.
Those who feel the need to learn will seek expertise and the sources of knowlege. You can tell the students of this craft from its duffers by noticing who cites Greater Magic and who sites the more trendy offerings. The "work" on those basics, be it the "French Drop" or as in the Robert-Houdin book, le Tournequette, or the Classic Pass, which is still underground except for Geoff Latta sharing his work as he feels fit... is not so good to put online. Just my opinion. I'd rather see you give interested folks a copy of the Henry Hay book than tip new findings on classic works.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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BlackShadow Special user London UK 666 Posts |
It's interesting how different people see the contrasts bewteen websites and books.
Say someone wanted the share some technique of needlework or how to play a topspin serve on a website, then this conversation wouldn't be taking place. It would be a question of all learning being good learning. You may pick up a copy of Bobo's or RRTCM at a secondhand shop for 50c, or find a similar book at a library, and that is all fine and OK. If you spend days looking and find some info on the net then that's "exposure," and it's all very very naughty! I realise my views are more liberal than most in this respect though |
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Noctuabundus New user WI 8 Posts |
I generally just lurk around here, been for a while, I've made a few posts...but anywho, I just wanted to say that I have to agree with blackshadow on how there's not much different between going to a library and renting a book and searching the internet for information. Both require just about as much effort. I'd also like to note that prior to me buying any magic for myself I did do a ton of online research and had quite a magic background before ever having to buy anything. This all made me even more interested in magic though. Which led to my understanding of why we pay for magic. And now I do buy tricks if I find them worthy of my money. If I see it and it impresses me enough, I have no problem spending some money on it. I respect the time and effort they put into their idea. So I think that website can help the magic community. It inspires people just getting into it.
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phedonbilek Special user Greece, Cameroon, France 883 Posts |
It is true that with some research on the net one can find almost anything... Exposure? Sometimes I still wonder how those secrets are still kept...
Phedon
...The only easy day is yesterday...
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Much of my work and material remains secret. The ideas that were aped and published ( think three fly ) without permission are still pretty much secret. Just aping the actions does not always get you the result you seek. The good stuff is going to stay secret. Sorry. No offense to Miss Piggy or swine in general, it's just that pigs eat corn, not pearls. There seems little motivation to put pearls before swine. The FEW who want to get beyond tricks and "fooling" will seek out others who treat our craft as something special, and so the had won knowledge of the few may be passed on.
Why keep material secret... that's an easy one to answer; Our community is littered with tyros and hacks who hide ego issues behind the process of "fooling" people, and doing magic to people as opposed to for people. Please don't treat the things I've let into print as corn. And please don't touch/toy with, perform or unless I personally invite you, get in any way get involved with any of my material which I have not yet decided to put into print.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-21 07:15, phedonbilek wrote: Which is probably a good argument for NOT having another web site on the net teaching basic magic...There are plenty already there. Paul. |
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emeline Regular user 135 Posts |
Thank you everybody for your help ! It's great to know Magicians are like a family !
see you emeline |
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BlackShadow Special user London UK 666 Posts |
It is a family, and we do have family disagreements. You can see some different opinions here, but do what you think is right personally
The good thing about the net is that you have a lot of freedom for a personal touch however that may agree with any opinions of others The only really forbidden thing would be exposure of methods not in the public domain without permission. But as you can see, some would not like any exposure at all. Good luck with the website! |
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emeline Regular user 135 Posts |
You're right Blackshadow but in fact, if I asked those questions, it's because I'm so afraid to do some mistakes and then some magicians be angry against me ! I'm a very serious person and I am full of respect for this art so I would like to give the best I can for my website.
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Matthew Teague New user New Mexico 7 Posts |
It is an interesting thought. I wonder where the internet is going to take magic. When I started getting into magic I didn't know about magic shops or magic videos. for a while my only source was libary books, wich was extremly fustrating for a thirteen year old kid who could't read very well. It shure would have been a lot easyer to type in magic and click on search. That's technoligy for ya.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
We can see how the internet is effecting basic skills like spelling.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Rob Elliott Elite user Reston VA 487 Posts |
I guess so, Jon. That's "affecting".
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
My dictionary says your both right.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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