The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Criteria for the best coin magicians (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Michael Rubinstein
View Profile
V.I.P.
3953 Posts

Profile of Michael Rubinstein
We've gotten a bit off topic here. After reading some of these posts, another criteria agreed on would be the influence over time that the magician has had on other magicians and their craft.
ONLY A FEW BOOKS LEFT AVAILABLE FOR SIGNING!!! First edition and reprint of Rubinstein Coin Magic sold out in RECORD TIME! The good news, though, is that I have reprinted the book once again (they are selling like hotcakes!), so there are enough for everyone!! As such, and for the last time, I again have a VERY limited supply of books left that I can sign. All come with a special FREE GIFT (worth over $25!) until supplies are gone, so first come, first serve! To order, be sure to send me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com . The books usually ship the day after the order is received (excluding weekends)!
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! Already called a Modern Classic!!
And if anyone (USA ONLY) needs some of the coin stuff used in the book, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com as I have some limited supplies of coins and props used on the book.
Mb217
View Profile
Inner circle
8711 Posts

Profile of Mb217
I was thinking the same thing Doc...Though interesting, but way off base here from what you originally put forth...Smile Funny, all the folks here that usually tell others when they think they're "off-topic" were engaging in it. Hope they remember that the next time they decide that someone isn't holding to the point of the string. Smile Guess it's ok when they do it, but not ok when others do it and particularly when they disagree with what you say, on point or not. Good call Doc. Maybe they'll take it from a master like yourself. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Paul Chosse
View Profile
V.I.P.
1955 - 2010
2389 Posts

Profile of Paul Chosse
A high level of skill is a given. If you can't do the slieghts required to FOOL an audience you certainly can't qualify as a Master. And, there should be no tells, no suspicion whatsoever, but then, we knew that, right?

Entertainment? Certainly the Master should be able to create a "moment", the suspension of disbelief that allows people to believe in magic, if only for the duration of the performance. The idea that they will go away thinking you really are "magic" seems a bit much. Like a good movie, your audience should be "in the moment" for the duration of the performance, and appreciate your ability to entertain and fool them for a long time after you are done. Like, "Boy, that was a great movie! I thought they really killed him, didn't you? What a surprise when he saved the day! They really did a great job with that movie. I'd see that again..."

Creativity - that's a pretty subjective thing. Vernon worked on classic plots, and "created" very little in terms of new slieghts or tricks, though I doubt anyone would question his "Master" status. He did "create" a different approach to magic. Outlook is as creative a thing as material is. Style is a creative endeavor. Generally, though, I think the "Masters" bring new ways of looking at the art to the fore. Sometimes it IS new material, new plots, new slieghts, and other times it is a different way of looking at things. Vernon, again, believed in striving for simplicity of method and effect. And in "Naturalness", whatever he meant by that. Slydini focussed attention of an old, but little used technique, lapping. And then applied other ideas, not necessarily magical, to his performance. He applied "body language" to performance in a way that had never been done before. Not new ideas, but new applications. Was Tony a "Master"?

Teaching? I don't know that this is a requirement for "Master" level. Some magicians' refuse to teach thier material. Try, today, to learn from Ricky Jay. Or, look backward and consider what Hofzinser left us, of his own volition. Malini's material is recorded by others, not because he wanted his work taught, but because others wanted to honor him. Liepzig never wrote a book. Are they "Masters"?

Insiration? Here is something of great value. Does a magician inspire? Just watching some magicians makes me want to be better, to achieve at the level they do, to garner the responses they can. Thier very existence improves my magic. Are they "Masters"?

Personality. Not on stage, though that is important. Overall personality. Do I admire the man? Would I want to be around him without the magic? And does that matter? Can he be a "Master" and a miserable SOB too? I wonder...

These are random thoughts, not necessarily my criteria, but they would impact my final checklist, if I were to do one, on what a "Master" really is...

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
truthteller
View Profile
Inner circle
2586 Posts

Profile of truthteller
I attended the Coinvention and during the entire 2 days only saw three tricks/performances which achieved what I consider to be the minimum standard for presentation before a live audience. One requirement is technical competence. This is not to mean "hard" but adequate. There is a trend in coin magic today to perform magic so difficult not even the creators can perform them. Perhaps they should read Erdnase and heed his advice concerning suspiscion and detection.

While a lay audience may not know what happened, they certainly know something DID happen. I would rather watch Danny Archer's simple handling for Elbow, Knee and Neck than the vast majority of that which was presented that weekend. It was clear, concise, and the moves - while simple - would deceive any lay person. On the opposite end of the spectrum was Homer Liwag. His routine was very difficult, yet clearly within the range of his abilities. So, it is not about easy vs. hard, but about holding oneself to a standard of competence and making sure the person being deceived is not oneself but the audience.

A second factor is dramatic unity. I feel "coins" have entered a mannerist period. In art, a mannerist period occurs after new techniques have been developed and become so pervasive, nothing ends up being expressed. I see that today. Roth really did a great job revolutionizing the way people thought about coin magic - a medium for dramatic expression. He would be considered the "high art" of the time. Since him the focus seems to have been on technique and the development thereof. (This is generally how it works. A study of music will reveal similar tendencies, emphasis switched from melody to harmony to rhythm, etc. after some "high point" has been achieved. You can see this in the perenial "revolt" to the simplification of things such as Monteverdi's new style post the first development of polyphony and again with the harmonic simplification post-Baroque leading into the Enlightenment.)

Post Roth, technique came to the fore. Now we have many techniques, but nothing is expressed. It is the epitome of magical masturbation. (Just because you can do three fly with three different coins doesn't really mean the audience - who should be the ultimate arbiter in these matters- will care.) While artists do exist who can still express themselves meaningfully, they are the rarity. Again, I only saw three at coinvention. (The third name not mentioned was Roger Klause and his presentation of Sun and Moon.)

We can take the concept of dramtic unity even further to consider one's entire presentation. How many magicians could present an entire act - successfully - with nothing but coins? How many of the people have done so in a venue not connected to a magic convention?

Finally, the third issue to consider is overall performance skill. The ability to stand before a group, speak coherently without stumbling, and captivate them is difficult. It seems most magicians spend more time on mutobe palms than stage presence.

So there, in my humble opinion, are three elements required to be a master of coin magic - or any magic.

Brad
Chris S
View Profile
Veteran user
393 Posts

Profile of Chris S
Brad, that is one heck of a great post. I genuinely hate inane "yeah, what he said..." or "right on, man" posts, but I really have nothing to add to your spot-on analysis.

Bravo.
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
John Pezzullo
View Profile
Veteran user
Sydney AUSTRALIA
354 Posts

Profile of John Pezzullo
Quote:
So there, in my humble opinion, are three elements required to be a master of coin magic - or any magic.


To one and all - including myself.

Read Brad's posting at least half-a-dozen times and commit the key points that he makes to your deep memory.

It's the 'real work'.
"One arrow. One life."
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Quote:
On 2005-02-28 06:06, John Pezzullo wrote:
Read Brad's posting at least half-a-dozen times and commit the key points that he makes to your deep memory.

It's the 'real work'.

I second the thoughts put forward in Brad's posting.
Actually somebody else 2 days back mentioned exactly the same to me re similar *coin-events*.
Too much fingerflinging and *zero*-presentation of the effects shown, not of interest to layaudiences, solely to magicians, who somehow might misunderstand and get misguided re what effects to choose and how to present them, for paying/interested audience..
The interest will fall, unless the effects are straightforward and entertaining, well presented..
I've not been present at any of these events, due to the travelling distance, but I have it on 'authority' re how the impact was, actually from somebody well known in coincircles..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Dan Watkins
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
3027 Posts

Profile of Dan Watkins
I think around other coin magicians, we often (at least I do) show around ideas, things we find interesting, routines not fleshed out fully yet, etc.

A lot of the Coinvention is the discussion of different concealments, ideas, etc. Not all of it is a show of polished material (like David Roth's Concerto of the Hands).

As a guy who loves coin magic, I find the topic interesting, even if specific routines are not.

However, I can't find myself disagreeing with Brad's post. I might have a few more that I'd add to his list of three, but the salient points of his text are pretty valid.
Click to visit:
Image
Mike Wild
View Profile
Inner circle
NY, PA, TX, MA, FL, NC
1290 Posts

Profile of Mike Wild
I think one (of the several) important points of Brad's post is represented quite well in the following excerpt:

"Post Roth, technique came to the fore. Now we have many techniques, but nothing is expressed. It is the epitome of magical masturbation. (Just because you can do three fly with three different coins doesn't really mean the audience - who should be the ultimate arbiter in these matters- will care.)"

I thought that particular passage was worth repeating and highlighting. I see a lot of the same these days, too many magicians too willing to trade personal pride in their handling skills for presentation and entertainment value.

And far too many magicians that do Roth's [fill in whichever Roth routine you like here] exactly the way Roth does it... except he's exchanged one type of steal for another in phase 2, and then runs off to his magician friends and declares, "Look! Look what I've created!

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27097 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
There are a couple of wonderful quotes about matters of cleverness and knowledge that come to mind here. One involves the notion of caring, the other comes from the play "Harvey". Both are easily found using keywords on Google.

"No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care." This can easily be extended to folks not caring how clever you are with coins. Watching folks flounder through performances of tricks done with no presentation is ... like watching a fish out of water flop around. Without audience rapport... we have nothing.

The other quote is closer to what I'm about these days:
"...in this world you must be oh-so clever, or oh-so pleasant.' For years I was clever. I'd recommend pleasant..."

As some of you already know, I've spent the last twenty years exploring magic and its place in our lives. Earlier someone mentioned "three fly". Writing as someone who was clever enough to invent the trick, the working premise, the sleights and even the basic approach to coin magic to which this is simply an example of a coins across... I can tell you that without a basic concern (caring) and respect for your audience, they may be impressed, thought they are not likely to feel that thing we call magic. For some of the folks I've seen, they could get a bigger smile and a better reaction from a person just by smiling and asking them how they are doing today. Even a tiny bit of cold reading skills and a good guess might get a better reaction than some sort of assault intended to impress.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Reed McClintock
View Profile
V.I.P.
772 Posts

Profile of Reed McClintock
Lets break it down to the reality of what we are talking about here.
1. At a convention a magician does a trick that would fool lay people will not fool magicians.
2. Is a convention not a place for magicians try newer material out to get feed back on a piece he wants help making it better.
3. Ego and magicians two words meaning the same, SO when a magician walks out of a room everybody talks about how poor something was rather than say dude, what if you tried this or that. The lack of support and assistance from peers is virtually null.
4. How many magicians have the b*&**s to try something anyway knowing full well that bs will be talked about him after the fact.
5. Insecurity with oneself to belittle others this is truly the modern day exceptional magician thought process. How much crap can I talk about so and so to upgrade my sleight of hand technique.
6. #5 should be read until it makes since
7. How many that do coin magic work in the real world more than three nights a week. In my opinion personally is still not enough to warrant any kind of expertise on a coin effect or any other type of magic.
8. At coinvention I saw one piece of coin magic that was brilliant and that was klauses sun moon routine that was or shall I say goes to Goshman.
9. Funny how people talk a big game but refuse to show their creations. If the creative process is not explored nothing new will be gained. So while everyone is working out what the criteria for a master is. What would happen if you just based it on who and what you do and not on what others do?
10. Creativity has so many levels as does magic. Most are unwilling to explore old methods to make them new while I feel most coin tricks are lame, I am constantly exploring a way to make what I think is cool for my audience and me. I am not afraid to show magic to my peers, even if it is sub par, that is the stuff I wont show a audience of lay people. Only tight material goes out for actual performance. The sub par material shown to peers is worked out by the rolling of eyes since most will not say anything it is up to you the magician to read between the lines to figure out why a piece sucks. That is the reality and that is what it is magicians like the idea of helping other magicians out but inside they are hard pressed to watch them fail. I suppose a sort of sick way of feeding their ego.
This is where I stand, whether anyone agrees or not I am able and secure enough to stand up what I believe. Whether it is unpopular or not. If I am at a convention and someone wants honesty and my particular perspective on a trick or routine I will offer it if they ask. I always ask and very few will be honest to me and help me.
Magic is no longer about me and what I can do. Magic is about the sheer entertainment and ego boosting of the audience to make them feel good about themselves. We live in a society full of advertising belittling and selfishness. People are to fat, to skinny, not enough money; afford the newest TV, the biggest house. All for what nothing. Magic gives your audience a way out for a few minutes to forget about whom and what they are they’re social standing. As soon as magicians in my opinion give to people themselves and not what they can do to show how great they are magic will continue to flounder in the vicious abyss it is presently in.
These views are solely mine and not of the magic Café. Most of you I am sure will think wow this guy is crazy and way out there. But I dare you to try it just once try doing magic not for your self but magic for your audience treat them as if they are above you come back lets us net hear you say how they told you that you are the greatest magician they have ever seen! Once you have heard that then you will know it does not matter who or how great others are but that you were great in that moment of performing.
Cheers
Reed McClintock
"Stuff is anything, but magic is everything"



Reed McClintock 2003







Image
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
What Reed said makes all sense, I just dare to insert a very few comments


Quote:
On 2005-02-28 18:12, Reed McClintock wrote:
Lets break it down to the reality of what we are talking about here.
1. At a convention a magician does a trick that would fool lay people will not fool magicians.

That's OK, but the goal should be what the magicians does also has *somehow* to be appreciated by fellow magicians, either they have to recognize its entertainment and presentational value.
It though of course is OK to play around at conventions swapping moves aso.


2. Is a convention not a place for magicians try newer material out to get feed back on a piece he wants help making it better.

Of course it is...at conventions! When talking about *lectures* though, the issue of presentation and entertainment value is too often forgotten by the one giving the lecture, here I also mean the *practical* real life value of his material, it SHOULD be aimed to get performed in real life!

3. Ego and magicians two words meaning the same, SO when a magician walks out of a room everybody talks about how poor something was rather than say dude, what if you tried this or that. The lack of support and assistance from peers is virtually null.

No negative thoughts please Smile
What you just mentioned doesn't fit what fellow magicians mentioned re Mikey Silver Smile


4. How many magicians have the b*&**s to try something anyway knowing full well that bs will be talked about him after the fact.

They safely can, if they have really something to offer, if what they want to show really is worthwhile and practical for real life work .
I actually do recall having witnessed quite a couple of Fred Kaps' lectures, also basically covering the same material, it was a pleasure to watch several times, because of the *lecturer/performer*, who also presentet his stuff entertainingly!


5. Insecurity with oneself to belittle others this is truly the modern day exceptional magician thought process. How much crap can I talk about so and so to upgrade my sleight of hand technique.

Agreed....though a real talent will always shine through..example again: Mikey Silver.

6. #5 should be read until it makes since

I did Smile

7. How many that do coin magic work in the real world more than three nights a week. In my opinion personally is still not enough to warrant any kind of expertise on a coin effect or any other type of magic.

Admitted, but note, one not even should do ones beloved coinwork in real life without also doing non-coin stuff for real ppl in the same program..A good example, once again, Albert Goshman, he at least was one who did normally do his stuff more then 3 nights a week!

8. At coinvention I saw one piece of coin magic that was brilliant and that was klauses sun moon routine that was or shall I say goes to Goshman.

I don't wonder Smile

9. Funny how people talk a big game but refuse to show their creations.......

Here I have to agree Smile , and I neither mention any name...

10. Creativity has so many levels as does magic.

Most certainly correct!

Again, I agree to what is said in general, but had to give some comments.. Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Mike Wild
View Profile
Inner circle
NY, PA, TX, MA, FL, NC
1290 Posts

Profile of Mike Wild
RE: "How many that do coin magic work in the real world more than three nights a week. In my opinion personally is still not enough to warrant any kind of expertise on a coin effect or any other type of magic."

Ouch! I understand your reasoning and thought process here Reed, however I have to disagree to some extent. I do my thing at the bar 2-3 nights per week. I do an occasional gig at another venue 2-3 times a month. Although my actual number of live performances per month averages out to be about 12-13, I spend several hours each "off-day" rehearsing, practicing, working out new concepts and material, etc. I consider myself to be in the majority or the "norm" of semi-professional magicians (professionals who have a day job as well)... in other words I think most of us practice and perform at about that frequency, some more, some less, buit I think that's a good average.

I've been doing this, on and off (more on than off) for about 10-12 years, not counting my college years when I performed whenever / where ever I could. I'd say that given the time involved, and the number of years invested, someone like me could get to a level of mastery over coins or other types of magic. I'm not saying that I'm a master, but I am saying that I and others like me could very easily attain very high levels of mastery.

That's just my opinion of course, but like you, I'm not afraid to put it out there for public consumption.

I completely agree with everything else that you wrote Smile

Best,

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Chris "linkster" Watson
View Profile
Special user
England
564 Posts

Profile of Chris
Got to agree with you Mike although I can't claim any of the criteria for myself...merely a hobbyist, but I would be interested to hear how often someone like Johnathan Townsend performs? Undoubtably a coin magician who everyone looks up to but I don't get the feeling he performs with that kind of frequency? I may be wrong.

I also agree with Reed's sentiment that you can't get a "feel" for magic without interacting with a live audience and that interaction is honed by performing regularly. Based on that people with more real world experience are perhaps better equipped to assess greatness but not the only ones capable.
Doug Peters
View Profile
Special user
I have a life, so I only have
589 Posts

Profile of Doug Peters
Off-topic:
Quote:
On 2005-02-25 17:52, cloneman wrote:
We had to wait until we had evolved as a species to the point of language...

Unfortunately, there is no sufficient mechanism known to modern man that would actually facilitate the evolution of language. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself -- Thomas introduced my life's work) Are you aware that "primitive" languages are almost always more complex than "modern" languages? Hardly evidence for the evolution of language. Are you aware that "feral children" appear to be incapable of learning language? Language acquisition apparently requires a linguistic community. Yet another chicken-and-egg, it would appear.

on-topic:
"a master is anyone that I can learn from" (and if you think there is conceit in the statement, you've mis-read it)
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Quote:
On 2005-03-01 11:55, Doug Peters wrote:
"a master is anyone that I can learn from"

Wrong!"
It's like being a *rich* man.
Owning 100$s might make on a rich man some places in the world.

If one doesn't know anything about magic, a guy showing you a Svengali Deck routine and does it poorly, but fools you, makes him a master?
(He surely can teach you to handle the Svengali Deck, as badly as he does it! )

Yes, in the eyes of somebody knowing *nothing*..but it takes a little more to get recognized as a master by ppl in the know .
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27097 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
I could tell you how much things changed for me when I went to SUNY Purchase and was around artists most of the time, and performed a few times a week in the dorm room.

I could tell you how much things changed when the artists started telling me about their inner worlds.

I could tell you have much things changed again when I took a degree in psychology to learn what can be measured and what language we have to describe our inner worlds.

Instead I will tell you that the path I'm on is a long one, from finding a definition of magic to finding where magic exists in our lives. You can find ancient Greek mythology in my thinking, and post modern art in my presentations. I'm still working on the basic questions about what is a magician and what is the place of magic in our society. Thanks to the internet, I can stay in touch with others who treat magic as vehicle for entertainment and who seek to refine their works.

Here is a bit of magic from just little while ago. I misplaced my copy of "The Thin White Duke", a recording of a concert from 1976. Not the easiest listen as the original source was an off the radio recording. Just yesterday I noticed a new listing for a recording from Nassau 1976, and happened to look. I expected it was the radio broadcast, and noticed it was in MP3 format ... and half expected it to be in average quality. I downloaded it. There, in full 320kb/s quality was something in just less than broadcast quality, the full show, minus "Five Years". Just yesterday I put the recording onto a CD and heard the thing on my way home from work. Nice to hear all the instruments and voice in high quality. What does it mean that the same day I give up on a CD as lost, another comes my way in better quality? To me it sure as heck means there is more to the world than the linear local cause-effect model we work with.

That said, where is the magic in your life? What are you bringing to your audiences?

The last time I did any magic for someone at work was when a "healed" a broken inspection stamp. I try to treat magic as something worthy of respect, and that starts with the audience, and what they believe and what has meaning to them.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
cloneman
View Profile
Elite user
475 Posts

Profile of cloneman
Quote:
On 2005-03-01 11:55, Doug Peters wrote:
Off-topic:
Quote:
On 2005-02-25 17:52, cloneman wrote:
We had to wait until we had evolved as a species to the point of language...

Unfortunately, there is no sufficient mechanism known to modern man that would actually facilitate the evolution of language. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself -- Thomas introduced my life's work) Are you aware that "primitive" languages are almost always more complex than "modern" languages? Hardly evidence for the evolution of language. Are you aware that "feral children" appear to be incapable of learning language? Language acquisition apparently requires a linguistic community. Yet another chicken-and-egg, it would appear.

on-topic:
"a master is anyone that I can learn from" (and if you think there is conceit in the statement, you've mis-read it)


I thought we had left this chicken and egg thing behind, but since you bring it up, I must respond.

You mischaracterize a rather minor point of my argument. I did not say that language itself evolved, but that "We had to wait until we had evolved as a species to the point of language." In other words, human cognition evolved to the point where language (in whatever form) developed.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
Doug Peters
View Profile
Special user
I have a life, so I only have
589 Posts

Profile of Doug Peters
Thomas: please explain, then, why no less a personage than Daniel Dennett believes that "acquiring a human language (an oral or sign language) is a necessary precondition for consciousness–in the strong sense" -- and he is not alone. Btw, I did not mischaracterize your position: the word "evolve" can be taken to be equivalent to "develop" in the context of my previous post.

Werner, is yours a "some are more equal than others" position? Smile
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27097 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Doug, are you taking an "emergent" perspective on interpersonal structures here? IE language and inner model of other's perspective as artifacts that are created when social complexity reaches a certain level?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Criteria for the best coin magicians (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.34 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL