I ran into this issue the other day. I was using the Breakthrough Card System to do a basic effect for a co-worker. I did a couple of false shuffles, explained the instructions, and told him to cut the deck as many times as he wanted to. After I gave him the deck, he asks "Can I shuffle them?" I said "Who's doing this trick, you or me?" He agreed to follow the instructions, but he was very suspicious that it was a stacked deck.

So what do you do when a spectator asks to shuffle a BCS deck (or any stacked deck) while they're holding it?

Hi, Be very stern in your instructions. Make sure you show all the cards, then do a very convincing false shuffle the one Richard Osterlind does is fine. If the spectator still insists on shuffling the cards change the effect. For instance learn a good force the classic force always comes in handy when this happens, and just force the cards upon them. If you are doing card calling use jumbo cards like Osterlind does and there will be no trouble with the spectator wantng to shuffle.

Hope this helps
Darren

Avoid words like 'shuffle' when talking to a spectator - it's a word associated with magic tricks - use 'mix up the deak'

That's a starter.

If they insist on shuffling / mixing, ask them to mix up the deck behind their back, so you can't follow the order of the cards. It's tough to do anything else except cut when they're behind your back.

Also, if they shuffle them behind their back, they are more likely to do a series of running cuts, as oppose toa shuffle, or at most they will overhand shuffle the cards. This will not deminish the stack totally and you may still be able to continue.

Of course, you could make a comment as you switch the deck?

I have not had anyone ask to shuffle the BCS deck, I think it may be because I am very relaxed with them, and I am a mentalist and not a magician. So they don't generally associate the kind of things I am doing with magic tricks as such.

The reaosn for this is the context. I create a mood of mentalism from the moment I approach the tables, I open with either Swami Opener (as in ETMMM) or Invisible Palmtop (ala Banachek).

I perform with cards in the middle of my sets, so ther eis pleanty of set up before hand, getting the spectators into the "mentalism" frame of mind, and pleanty proceeding the card work, to prevent them thinking too hard about it.


Humour is also a good way out...now all I need to do is learn some jokes

Best,
Kennedy

I can follow the good advice above. However, I never had anyone ask if they could shuffle the deck, and it is all about spectator managment. If you present a BCS required trick, and the spectator asks to shuffle, then I guess 1)you probably have either allowed them to shuffle the cards in a previous effect (which you shouldn't do, donø't do card tricks or shuffling card tricks before the BCS effect), or 2) you are presenting it in the wrong way by putting to much attention on the shuffling. Both are wrong ways to handle the audience prior to a stacked deck effect.

I simply take the deck out and remove the jokers, thereby implicitly showing them the random nature of the deck. And while I'm explaining them about the Texas hold 'em poker game where two cards are face down (my patter line), I perform two fast false shuffles, and meanwhile I invite a spectator up to help me. I do a new fast false shuffle and let him cut - controlling him to make a regular cut. Then I turn my back and make him cut again and again. Only after the cutting and choosing process do I put attention to the shuffling by saying "So we shuffled the cards, I cut them, you cut them, then I turned my back, you cut them twice or three times and chose two cards and put them in your pockets - now is that fair???"

Look at Osterlinds performance on his DVD. He never ever calls attention to the shuffling prior to the spec choosing the cards. Only after do he mention that "we shuffled the deck .......".

Work with this. Osterlinds BCS effects are pure miracles. Good luck

Roll your eyes a bit and say with a hint of impatience, "If you have to..."
In my experience, this usually gets a small laugh from the assembled company (since they'll know that 'x' has always been the difficult one of the group) and would-be-shufflers often back down.

If they don't back down, most people will overhand shuffle which means the majority of your stack will remain intact. If someone has insisted on shuffling, or if I notice (in an informal situation) that an unattended stacked deck has been shuffled overhand, I will almost always take a shot at another stacked deck effect. Sometimes it can be a bonus because you can call attention to the fact that they have shuffled the deck and you have not touched it since.
Alternatively, find a ruse under which to take back the shuffled deck and undo the spectator's shuffle (Mnemonica has a plethora of methods for covertly undoing a spetator's riffle and overhand shuffles). I should also mention that since my effects have taken a more mental flavour over these past years, I've had fewer and fewer requests to shuffle. Like Kennedy says, it has to do with attitude and persona.

As Darren says, having another effect to perform can be handy, and what a lovely idea from Withnail. Thank you for this.

Hi, ive found this to Very handy when doing the Bcs for a larger auidence. I carry an inviasble deck in my right jacket pocket, if the spec insists on shuffling and no matter what you try the spec goes ahead and mixes them up anyway because it will happen, then do this. Take no notice act as though you want him to keep mixing them untill he/she is satified, ask him to deal the cards on to the table and to stop anywhere he likes, when he does ask the spec to reverse the card and conitue by wiping out the invisable deck.

Darren

Switch

I won't say that has NEVER happened to me. I've been using the BCS for quite a long time! But, I will say that whenever that has happened in the past, it was usually an amateur magician who did that to me! What I have done, and will do again if it ever happens is look at them and say, "Look, when you do a trick you can shuffle, when I do one I will shuffle!"

Now, I know some of you will be saying, he said TRICK! I know, but it is the MOOD of the thing. Whenever I have done that, the spectators watching really laugh and it looks like I have put that person in their proper place in a gentle type of way. I never had problems after that.

Finally, you CAN shuffle the BCS once or twice (no faros, but who would know that by a magician?) and still have a better than 75% chance your routines will still work. I once did that for a magician 3 times in a row and blew him away!

Richard

I used to have this problem. (Generally I only perform two cards in pocket.)
I soon found that the following patter would generally cover me:

"I need you do exactly what I say from now on, you seem like a nice person so you won't have any difficulty doing as I ask. I need you to cut the cards like this please, if you could do this behind your back that would be excellent."

Since using the above I have never been challenged, should I ever be challenged I would reply:

"No, sorry, I need you to do as I have asked please, could you cut the cards.
Now take them behind your back and cut them again."

How about saying

"you can do, but it makes it's easier"
"you won't need to, as I'm not going to touch the cards"
"we need to build up a connection, if you're not going to listen to instructions, then this won't work"

fluff

Another thing you could do would be to catch them off guard...

"Can I shuffle your cards forst?"

"Yes, oh, what's your star sign?"

"Capricorn"

"Interesting? I wrote something on this..." reveal something amazing

"Sorry, where was I? Yes, you were going to cut the cards weren't you?"

Havent tried it but I thought by interrupting the patters of what the spectator expects, you might just get a result?

Best,
Kennedy

An idea...yes of course shuffle pls...ok then now can I chose one?Ok now I write it here but you mustn't see it!shuffle again if you want you are the mindreader!!!Take the pencil pls!

What am I thinking?The 4 of clubs?? Looks you are right!!!!!

Ok this is a solution for who does mental magic...if you do mentalism you simply say...ops sorry we can put the deck away I want only read your mind!

In something like this, I will

:)
Well it never happened to me!!!
Fair enough, I have only used bthe BCS 1/35of the time of what Richard has, and I know that sooner or later someone will ask me too if he can shuffle the cards.(-probably a magician)

However, up to now I have had no problems with it.
My hypohteses is as follows

1)Not all people actually KNOW how to shuffle a deck of cards (maybe that's just in Norway, but still...!!! )
2)I believe many don't want to make themselves look bad if they actually tried to shuffle a deck in public (in a performance
3)Many people CAN handle CUTTING a deck, and I believe that in many's opinion that is good enough. (-they don't knos what you are about to do!)

For the time being, I use BCS for two routines. 2 cards in the Pockets, and the Test condition routine.
Note; In both cases the spectactor handles the deck 95% of the time. In this case, WHY would it be that critical important to the spectactor that he or she also shuffles the cards?

My point is on both routines.
However, for the test condition routine
-the spectactor THINKS of ANY card even before she gets near the deck. The only thing she is supposed to do, is to FIND the card, LOOK at it, and BURRY it in the deck again.
Why would the point of shuffling be important at all when you not ar even close to the deck when all this takes part???

The same thing with Two cards in Pockets,
-the spectactor handles the deck virtual all the time.If I were the innocent spectactor, I wouldn't believe that the perfrormer had one single chance to control my choice.

I hardly do any false shuffles at all (-but one) but I cut the deck two or three times, two of which right in front of the spectactor.
I ask her to cut thye deck a frew times the way I did, - and she does! No questions at all!!

- but as mentioned, I am in Norway.
I know that Norwegian immigrants in US was nick named "square heads"
Maybe we deserve that nickname , - but we are a wonderful audience for a mentalist!!


Sven

Sorry, I hit send too soon..

In a situation like this, it helps to be proactive. Ask them a question that leads them to a desired response...ie, start cutting them yourself while saying, "I need you to simply cut the cards...you do know how to cut cards, don't you?". Their only reasonable response can be "yes", and at this point, they would look like an idiot if they took the cards and started shuffling them just to spite you..

Rick

Rick, I was still talking/editing, and you interrupted me!!!

Oh well, you couldn't know that I was !

I was just about to say that it FYI was more than 1 MILL immigrants in the old days, that there are more than 5MILL with Norwegian blood in their vains over there by now, and that we'll take over the shop any day now!

Sven

Sven,
Sorry to be typing while you were interrupting...

These responses are great. What I really appreciate about this forum is that I can ask questions about an effect, and in many cases (like this one) the person who actually created the effect will respond. Thanks, Richard! I've been watching your Mind Mysteries DVDs and have gotten a lot of really good ideas, but the BCS is just soooo good. I've been able to develop my own routines using the principles in this system.

After I performed one of these effects, someone I know suggested I was in league with the devil. You know you're doing something right when somebody says this and you take it as a compliment