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Philip Chau Regular user Macau 124 Posts |
Hi,
I am fairly new to magic, but has performed to family and friends. Most of the times I got great reactions. But for some particular people, it seems that they always think the effect was not really great. They say they knew I did some sleight of hand, just they didn't know. These are the people who always think that magicians just do things they don't see and use misdirection. For instance, if I perform an ACR (I learned from Oz Pearlman, Daryl's DVD and other sources) People will say "You either inserted another card, or did a switch very fast, and somehow manipulated the card to the top" If I do some coin stuff, they say "You just did something fast I can't see. It's cool, I don't know how you did it, but I know you put the coin somewhere in the other hand or transfered it when I didn't know" If I do something like "invisible deck" or "brainewave" they say: "I'm sure there's some certain order in the deck that you remember" OR say Jay Sankey's In A Flash, they'll say " The holes were already there all the time" OR for Pen thru dollars they'll say "I'm sure there's something wrong with the pen and you switched it when I wasn't looking or something" OR for Raven or similar effects, they'll say "Oh I swear you're using magnet" Or for levitations, they'll "Are you using some kind of thin strings?" These are just some effects. I mean, there are people who will not get surprised or blow away easily. I mean, these are the really smart people. Although they don't know how the trick is done, they know that it can be done my clever manipulation. I'm pretty sure it's not that I didn't master these effect, because I do get great reaction from many people, just except for certain people who already seem do be sceptic and stuff.. The point is, does anyone know any effect that totally blow people's mind. They will have totally NO idea how it's done. It doesn't matter if it's sleight of hand or single tricks. Please help Thanks Philip Chau |
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BerkleyJL Veteran user Chicago, IL 397 Posts |
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice." Joseph Dunninger
Those people you're talking about will never allow themselves to be blown away. Psychologically they cannot believe real magic was performed. They may not be anywhere close to the RIGHT solution--or they could be dead on. It doesn't matter. Whatever they come up with will be good enough to settle their minds. Don't sweat over it. Sounds to me like you've got quite a nice repertoire built up if you can perform all of those effects well.
I need a stage name.
Joe Berkley |
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Niko Special user England 599 Posts |
It happened to me first. Everything was like that. But it is all about presentation which you will develop as you become more experienced. To those 'clever' people, show them a few flourishes every now and then - If they know it's not magic at least show them it's amazing sleight of hand
-Niko
When you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Philip Chau Regular user Macau 124 Posts |
Hi
Thanks for the advice n stuff. Joe I totally get your point. And Niko, I do flouishes too, and that's exactly the point. They think it's just flourishes, nothing special. They know it's sleight of hand. The point is, I was wondering if you guys know of some magic trick, maybe a single gimmicked trick that these people will NEVER have any idea of how to do. I mean obviously sleight of hand is good, but these people Know that it is sleight of hand. I do some flourishes, several color changes and stuff, but they know it's sleight of hand. But guys, is there anything Close to real magic that you guys have bought? Philip CHau |
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Catbacker Regular user Manhattan, KS 145 Posts |
Check out Paul Harris's Deep Astonishment, Bob Kohler's Black Envelope DVD, Card Warp, McDonald's Aces, Crazy Man's Handcuffs, Ammar's Card on the Ceiling, or a Bill in Lemon routine.
I particularly like routines where the audience is expecting the wrong thing. I do Bobo's Coin Fold vanish with flash paper. People are like, "Ho hum, he made my signed quarter disappear, but when I pull out a brass box, hand it to them, and let them find their quarter nested four boxes deep, they are floored. The first time I watched Bob Kohler do the No Palm Card to Envelope, I was fried. Misdirection for me is not so much getting them to look in the wrong direction as it is getting them to think in the wrong direction. Scott
"Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong." Dennis Miller
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calexa Inner circle Germany 1635 Posts |
First of all I want to tell you that there will always be someone around "who knows". Sometimes when I follow some discussions I get the feeling that some magicians think that "laymen" are stupid....THEY ARE NOT! Some will get your moves, some will have a feeling, and some will just rely on the basic fact that there is NO REAL MAGIC - I mean not in the way Harry potter does magic....
What I´m trying to say is that a lot of spectators, especially those who can think (there are only a few, don´t worry............just kidding) will know something. Some of them, who like your performance, won´t say anything. But some do. Never think the spectators don´t know anything. THat brings us to the second point: it all up to your performance. Some magicians think that they simply must show a very cool flourish, a smooth move - and everybody thinks they are the best. That is simply not true. Very often, the story around the magic is much more important than the trick itself. Take for example a mental miracle, where you predict the card a spectator has chosen. You can now tell them that you can really read other people´s minds. Or you can tell them that the sectet lies in the body language, a very little movement of the eyes when you show them some cards, and there card is among them. What do you think is more convincing? You ask: is there a trick which completely blows them away? I answer you: EVERY trick can completely baffle them. And EVERY trick can be a complete fiasco when not done properly. It´s all up to you - YOU DO THE MAGIC. Magixx
Optimists have more fun.....
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BerkleyJL Veteran user Chicago, IL 397 Posts |
Catbacker brings up a good point, without really saying it directly. If you want to completely blow a sceptic's mind...do mentalism. Really convincing mentalism that defies explanation.
A big part of that is exactly as he said...getting them to think in the wrong "direction." Check out "Wonder Words" by Kenton Knepper for some ways to make your magic more real just by the words you say while you're performing.
I need a stage name.
Joe Berkley |
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Zac Vee Veteran user Traveling the world with 370 Posts |
I totally agree with all those who say its all up to what you say , and how you say I while performing. The simplest trick ever can be performed by some one and make others think all day about how he did it, and the same trick can be performed by another person and makes everybody around laugh.
Often when some one start doing magic, will always try to find the most powerful trick and the most talked abot trick, and alwasy missing the fact that all tricks have the same effects when done in perfectin. Back to your questin.. What is the best trick that will blow peples minds? Answer , you can blow people's mind with any trick you wish , but you have to really believe that it is powerful, and makes them believe its mind blowing. Hope this helped P.S As for those who knows how something is done , this is natural. But we can still make them doubt if what they think is right. Zac
peace, love and kindness.. no terms and conditions
1001 Magic Nights Blog www.kasrani1.wordpress.com http://www.kasrani.com/ |
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Joe Mauro Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-24 17:09, BerkleyJL wrote: Thank you for the Dunninger quote. It makes so much sense.
~Joe
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Moonlit Knight Regular user U.S. 113 Posts |
Philip – unfortunately, there is no advice or trick that I can recommend in order to assure an end to such statements and inquiries within future performances. However, I will pass along a few things that will assist in reducing such reactions.
Remember, the things you listed above or can go and buy are just tricks - pure and simple. The proper execution of moves is simply one step in making these things magic. I must agree with Niko and Calexa when they wrote about presentation being the key. But, one thing often overlooked is that the presentation is not just what you say or do, it’s the way you say and do the things that you do. It’s how you relate to your environment and to others. It’s you. Good magical entertainers understand that who they are and how they act is just as important, if not more so, than what tricks or illusions they do. Understand who you are, then choose effects that complement your personality, or modify the ones you do so they will. Again, don’t just do something because you like it, think it’s cool or because someone says it will blow your audience away - do it because it fits you or can be modified to fit who you are. Allow the magic to become part of you.
"Join the dance... Follow on! With a twist of the world we go."
- Genesis "Dancing With The Moonlit Knight" |
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Jaxon Inner circle Kalamazoo, Mi. 2537 Posts |
As others have already said. Some people just think this way. Just by the simple fact that are thinking about this now shows you have a good mind for magic.
My advice is to not worry about finding new tricks to solve this issue. But rather find new ways to present them. I'm not saying this is describing you but sometime we can present a trick as a challenge. Even when we aren't trying to do that. Let me take a couple of the examples you shared and make a suggestion or two on different ways of presenting them. If I do some coin stuff, they say "You just did something fast I can't see. It's cool, I don't know how you did it, but I know you put the coin somewhere in the other hand or transferred it when I didn't know" One thing you can do here is to make the coin appear in a location that there is absolutely no possible way you could have done something when they weren't looking. Maybe have a duplicate coin loaded somewhere and make the coin appear there. If I do something like "invisible deck" or "brainewave" they say: "I'm sure there's some certain order in the deck that you remember" Maybe, just maybe you're actions suggested this. If you spread through the deck as if you are counting then they might notice this. Or for levitation's, they'll "Are you using some kind of thin strings?" This is a typical response and it's always a complete guess in their part. They don't see a string because there isn't one. Even when they say this out load they'll act like the have figured it out but they'll still think about it later and come to the conclusion that they really have no idea how it was done. My biggest suggestion is to not focus on fooling them. Focus on making them laugh. Another thing to think about is that from what you said these are friends you are performing for. I'm sure we all have friends who are getting bored with seeing us do tricks. One mistake I see many make is to think that just because people are responding to the tricks we show them every time we hang out. That means that they like to see it. This isn't always true. Sometimes friends are just being nice. It's a hard thing to hear but it's true. Even something good can get boring if we see it to often. I'm not saying these points all fit you. But others will read this too and maybe it'll fit them. Keep it fun and don't let these things stop you. Ron Jaxon |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Hello:
You point out a classic problem in magic and frankly one that in most cases is not easily overcome. If someone wants to they can come up with any number of plausible or implausible methods for ANY effect you show them. It won't matter how strong the effect, etc. That said, with experience I can almost guarantee that you will find some tricks that are just simply stronger than others and you will discover ways in which to make what you do stronger until it is pretty much impossible to be any thing but a 'little' freaked. In my own case I have a trick that is on my Small Packets Basics Video called 5 Card Mental. The original is found, I believe, in Frank Garcias Super Subtle Card Miracles book and it's a stone cold knockout. I use it generally in only two situations: When I want to really fool either laymen or other magicians. Another routine that is simply so strong that it just shuts them up is the Signed Card in Wallet using the LePaul Wallet. Also, look for a trick called the Dunbury Delusion. Can't remember right now what book it's in, but the best method uses a Second Deal and was my 'shut-up-the-loud-mouth' trick when I was working cocktail parties. Really one of the few really good Sucker Card tricks. The bottom line is that YOU will develope a knowledge over time of what works the best for you and what does not. OH! Note also that the type of person you are talking about is almost ALWAYS found on the amateur level. You very seldom get this problem when working professionally unless your performing style encourages them in some manner. Best,
Brad Burt
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ClouDsss Inner circle 1799 Posts |
Man it looks like you have a lot of problems with hecklers
my 2 cents advise would be only perform for those that wanna be entertained. IMO all effects have a certain potential to WOW people. It jus depends on ur presentation and what kind of people you are performing them to. Some might like coins more than cards, etc I usualy do a trick called "cheek to cheek" and it tends to blow people off. Has been in my routine as a closer for abt a year now and has so far not failed me. cheerios
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
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Philip Chau Regular user Macau 124 Posts |
Hi,
I really thank you all for such wonderful opinions. Joe, Niko, Scott, Magixx, Zac, Moonlit Knight, Ron, Brat, Cheeios, you guys are all wonderful magicians. I respect every one of you so much. As a beginner to this wonderful art, I have learned so much here, more than any book or DVD I've bought. I think that I'm really lucky, new magicians like me today can benifit a lot from these internet forums. I guess some of you might not have these sources available when you started magic. You guys must have had learned every single thing through trial and error. For me, I really enjoy magic so much. I still have to work on my performance though. I guess it comes with experience I still have yet to develop my unique style, which I think will slowly come. I think I'll put in mind that the important thing is not to fool people but to 'entertain'. No matter how a trick or routine is hard or easy, as long as everyone is having fun, then it's worth it! Actually, I'm also currently taking courses in Psychology, Interpersonal communication, Sociology in college. Do you guys think these will help? I hope to integrate these into my style of performance. But anyways, thanks again for all of the wonderful ideas. And wish me good luck in my magician career haha. I'm going to have more questions in the future, hope you guys could help Philip Chau |
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BerkleyJL Veteran user Chicago, IL 397 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-24 22:57, smellyguy_philip wrote: They certainly can't hurt! Psychology will help you to understand why people are affected by certain things and you can translate that into writing scripts and routines that will be more likely to produce the effect you are trying to achieve. Interpersonal communication should be useful when dealing with audiences and individual audience members, as well as helping you to "read" people so you'll know who to use as helpers and who to avoid. Um, I'm not even sure I know what Sociology is.
I need a stage name.
Joe Berkley |
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bg Veteran user Indy 313 Posts |
I find that I typically only encounter this problem when performing for people who I've known for years. They've known me before I stared magic and therefore view them as a puzzle to try to catch me.
I've never had this problem with people outside my family and friends. So take that into account it could just be your friends goofing on you. |
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calexa Inner circle Germany 1635 Posts |
Oh wes, friends are difficult to impress. And my fiancee is my hardest critic. When I can impress her, I know my handling is not bad....
Magixx
Optimists have more fun.....
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Zac Vee Veteran user Traveling the world with 370 Posts |
The same here , if I impress my friends with a trick , then I know strangers will be very very impresses, so this is good in away.
peace, love and kindness.. no terms and conditions
1001 Magic Nights Blog www.kasrani1.wordpress.com http://www.kasrani.com/ |
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Philip Chau Regular user Macau 124 Posts |
Hi guys,
It's true, mainly family member are not too impressed. I guess they've seen me done so many tricks before and might have ideas of how I did it! Anyways, I'm still working on my technique and presentation. Gotta get more experience in the streets too Philip Chau |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Look on the bright side. *Seriously!* The one thing your post did not say was people saying, "I saw how you did that!", or "You messed that one up!".
If you are performing the tricks so your audience does not know how you did it, you are off to a very good start.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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