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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » Question about Diamond cut silks (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Andy Wonder
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Auckland, New Zealand
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I am looking at replacing the silks on one of my routines with diamond cut silks to give the illusion they are bigger than they really are.

My question is about their size. Does an 18" diamond cut silk have the same surface area as a 9" square silk? Does the diamond cut reduce the volumne by half? or is it a different ratio? I am looking at the diamond cut silks from Jay Scott Berry.

At the moment I am producing 9" silks from a small enclosure. I'd like to switch to 18" diamond cut but can't spare any more storage space for greater volume.
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
Jimmy Joza
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A 12" diamond cut silk will look more like an 18" silk when produced. The space it will take up is approximately between that of 9" and 12" silk. I had been using diamond cut silks with Duke's Dye Version routine. I was able to store 5 12" diamond cut silks in the g*****k with no problem.

Jimmy
"Those who simply walk in others' tracks leave no footprints."
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Andy,

As a silk importer, there are several things about diamond cut silks that I don't think many magicians understand.

Sizes:

Nominal size 9" looks like a 12" held by one corner.

Nominal size 12" looks like an 18" held by one corner.

Nominal size 18" looks like a 24" held by one corner.

Nominal size 24" looks like a 36" held by one corner.

Most magic dealers in the USA only stock 9" but they often call it 12" and 12" but often call it 18". The smart thing to do is to request the measurement of the maximum length and then measure your silks of known size to see what is appropriate. (You can’t trust the catalogs.)

In small sizes especially, the hem costs more than the silk used. The hem on diamond cut silks is always inferior to the hems possible on square cut silks. That is just a function of the fabric structure. The fabrics should match well in color and weight. There is nothing unique about the fabric. It comes from the same stock.

Likewise, larger size diamond cut silks are both a better buy and much more convincing than smaller sizes. For a rule of thumb on pricing, a diamond cut silk should sell for slightly more than the next size up square silk. Good ones are not cheap as compared to square silks of the same quality. Nor are they as durable. However, those are compromises given for the added utility of diamond silks.

It is true that diamond cut silks have very little silk in them as compared to the squares they are meant to imitate. However, the size and rigidity of the different hemming process removes some of that benefit. (Washing them in Woolite will sometimes reduce a little of that problem. Of course it will also work on a square silk to help make it more compressible.)

In direct answer to you question about what could replace a 9” on space, I don’t recommend the switch. A diamond cut silk that small, in addition to being a terrible buy looks more like a shoestring than a square silk. An 18” diamond cut silk is about half the mass of a 24” square silk. A 9” diamond cut silk would appear to be a 12” square silk but with the mass of a 9” silk. You really don’t gain much in the smaller sizes. Perhaps changing to ribbon or small silk streamers would be better. (I bet you never thought that you would hear that from a silk importer!)

I’ll import whatever sells, but I really don’t recommend diamond cut silks under a true 18” that looks like a 24”. I will also admit that the 12” that appears to be an 18” square is the best seller. But then the most popular size magicians’ silks are the 18” squares. Stage show pros usually use 24” squares. Recently there are plenty of street magicians using 9” squares with the TT. The primary market for 6”, 9” and 12” squares are trick manufacturers trying to keep costs low. Then, as you have probably experienced, if the buyer likes the trick he reconstructs it with 18” or 24” silks. There is a lot of wasted money from the catalog to the stage. Aren’t you glad it’s cheaper than horse racing?

That was a very useful question for a lot of magicians, I’m sure. Give yourself a “Gold Star”.

Most retail magic shops will have 9” and 12” diamond cut silks. The better sizes will probably have come from shops that cater to pros more than hobbyists. I don’t have a wholesale customer in New Zealand or we could arrange whatever you decided upon through them.

Enjoy your magic!

Bob
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Jimmy Joza
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Your very thorough response is appreciated, Bob --- as always.

Jimmy
"Those who simply walk in others' tracks leave no footprints."
LeeAlex2002
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Quote:
On 2005-03-06 13:35, Bob Sanders wrote:
Andy,

Give yourself a “Gold Star”.



No Bob, you give yourself a Goldstar - that was more informative than an hour lecture!
Yours Magically,
Lee Alex

http://www.magic2wear.com
Bob Sanders
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Quote:
On 2005-03-06 17:11, LeeAlex2002 wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-03-06 13:35, Bob Sanders wrote:
Andy,

Give yourself a “Gold Star”.



No Bob, you give yourself a Goldstar - that was more informative than an hour lecture!


Thank you, Sir! (I thought it took an hour!)

Thanks again.

Bob
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knmagic
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Bob,
You have given more information than any magic shop ever given out. Thank you for the great information.
Ken
Bob Sanders
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Ken,

Thank you for the compliment. I doubt that most magic shops give much thought to it. They certainly never ask. To many of them diamond cuts and all other silks are just supplies. I'm not sure they all have the foresight to recognize that a magician will spend far more on supplies than on tricks in his life. Cultivating a long-term relationship would pay off.

Of course, working in the “parts department” could get dull too. Imagine having to work around a magic shop day in and day out! It’s enough to drive a man sane.

Thank you for the kind words.

Keep us posted.

Bob
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oagwood
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Pleasant Hill, CA
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Bob,
Excellent post, you covered just about everything I would ask about a diamond cut silk. I'll be pulling out the Woolite this weekend, what a great suggestion.
thanks again.

oliver
Bob Sanders
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Oliver,

Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated.

If you have never used Woolite with silks, you'll find it works well. There are several things to keep in mind.

1. Read the instructions. (A capfull is plenty!)

2. Use cold water. (I use the bathroom sink to wash silks.)

3. Squeeze but don't twist.

4. Rinse, rinse, rinse (Your hands too!)

5. I stick mine to the mirror or tile (shower stall wall in the hotel) to dry. Then there is little or no ironing. They just peel off flat when dry.

Don't mix white and colors. Yellow is more likely to stain other silks than red. I've never figured that one out! I separate colors.

Now that Martha is out, I'll probably get fired from this job.

Enjoy!

Bob
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oagwood
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Bob,
Thanks again for the great tips.

I feel like such a geek, I am actually excited about washing silks with Woolite, and now I have a drying technique. This is great. It is nice to know how to do things the correct way.

oliver
Bob Sanders
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Oliver,

It is tough being a macho guy and knowing that you really need to get home and wash out a few silky things in Woolite! Then there are the silk things all in the bathroom when the plumber comes.

And then there is the stigma in line at the grocery store. "I need a six-pack of he-man beer and some Woolite." (There's certainly no point in asking for her number.)

I have learned that Woolite will get salad dressing out of a silk necktie too! However many ties are going to fade even if you send them to the cleaners.

(Would you believe that I was raised as a rodeo cowboy?)

Life is a stage!

Bob
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dearwiseone
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Portland, OR
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Bob,
You've recommended getting some good diamond silks, where would you recommend. Can we get them through you? Are there other online dealers that would offer the larger 18" and 24" diamond cuts you recommend?
Thanks much!
Bob Sanders
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Quote:
On 2005-03-16 03:37, dearwiseone wrote:
Bob,
You've recommended getting some good diamond silks, where would you recommend. Can we get them through you? Are there other online dealers that would offer the larger 18" and 24" diamond cuts you recommend?
Thanks much!


Without knowing where you are, I can't send you to a walk-in magic store near you. However, there are plenty of good dealers out there that should have them. On the Internet you can try Duane Laflin or any of the sponsors here on The Café. (They do pay for this place! See the banners?)

I am not a retailer. But I love it when you buy from my customers!

Bob
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JamesinLA
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Bob,
I thought the way to figure out which square was equal to which diamond cut was to measure the diagonal measurement on a square silk and that was how to tell which diamond cut silk to approximate it. Is that correct? Thanks.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
hugmagic
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The diamond silk is not measured the same way a half silk. A half silk is a square silk cut in half on the diagonal of the silk. A diamond silk if folded in half on long side makes and elongated triangle. All four sides are the same length but the angle they meet at is not 90 degrees more like 30 degrees.

I hope that makes sense.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Bob Sanders
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Richard,

Can you sell these guys the larger diamond cut silks (18" looks like a 24" square and 24" looks like a 36" square)?

Bob
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Bob Sanders

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hugmagic
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Yes, if there is an interest in them. I will be willing to stock them in a few limited colors. They should realize that they do not have my normal double turned flat hem and that they are 5mm. 5mm is a little on the thin side for durability. I prefer 6 mm but they are not made in the diamond style.

If you are looking for purely a large looking large and possibly in standard or custom colors, contact me and I will work up a price for you.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Doc Pepper
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Black Hills of South Dakota
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This information will help with silk presentations (seems to be more silks) but also:
I use the old `silk out of nowhere' with a TT. This helps me with pulling, what would appear to be a larger silk by switching from square to diamond. .... Thanks
The Doctor will see you now! ;-)
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Old dove workers often face the problem of ditching a small silk 18" (or even 12") to get a 24". Diamond Cuts can help.

Bob
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Bob Sanders

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