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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » I hate wobbling in cups! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Burrich
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I suppose I don't really mind some wobble.

It's just that on the Bosco's half the time they don't even stack stright... the top cup will be tipped forward or backward (not an awful amount but enough to annoy me and make things a little bit harder when performing).

The best I can afford right now is the Bazar copper cups. Maybe in a year or two I'll treat myself to a set of Johnson cups or even some smooth Sherwoods. I just don't think I'm ready to buy an expensive set of cups and I think the Bazar cups are the best cups around that are quite inexpensive.

Steven.
chrisrkline
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Back to another question you asked, I have the Bazzar copper and they are nice and stable and have little wobble. For the price, they are a good deal.

Although, this came up in a different topic, I don't know how well they work if you need three balls on top. I have done routines with two balls (7/8 inch) on top of one of the cups inside a stacked postition, but never three. And I never liked how they worked, which I attributed to the stickier feel of the Mike Rogers Baseballs, but may be due, as Bill said, to the slightly narrower attic.

But I still think they are nice cups

(For the record, my MM cups (brass) have a great deal of wobble.)

Quote:
On 2005-03-08 03:48, magical_steve wrote:
Thanks for the advice everyone. I suppose I don't really mind some wobble.

It's just that on the Bosco's half the time they don't even stack stright... the top cup will be tipped forward or backward (not an awful amount but enough to annoy me and make things a little bit harder when performing).

The best I can afford right now is the Bazar copper cups. Maybe in a year or two I'll treat myself to a set of Johnson cups or even some smooth Sherwoods. I just don't think I'm ready to buy an expensive set of cups and I think the Bazar cups are the best cups around that are quite inexpensive.

Steven.


Yea, mine do the same thing. But I kind of like it, as it fits with the whole street persona. I like my cups to look older and well used. Now that they are developing a nice patina, that slightly tilted, tired look they get fits right in. If I were doing this in a tux, maybe I would like more of a ship shape, straight up and down look.

I have seen pictures of Gazzo's cups stacked with the top one leaning quite a bit, too.
Chris
swatchel-omi
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I think Bill is too modest to mention that his website: http://www.adessoverlag.com/cupsandballs.htm has some of the best deals on purchasing a set of cups and balls I've ever seen. There are some nice midrange cups, and they come with everything you need to get going. Check it out.

Joe
KirkG
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If you have a set of penguin cups that wobble, exchange them for some that don't. Penquin stands behind their cups in that regard.

Bill is right in that he says ALL cups "wobble" some, or they wouldn't work. I just took the term "wobble" to mean "wobble objectionably." All the cups I have don't wobble objectionably and some are cheap aluminum. I prefer cups that nest well and securely and stick by my original opinion that a good, well weighted nicely performing, non-"wobblying" cup is the Penguin cup in copper.

Kirk
Burrich
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Quote:
On 2005-03-08 08:16, chrisrkline wrote:
Although, this came up in a different topic, I don't know how well they work if you need three balls on top. I have done routines with two balls (7/8 inch) on top of one of the cups inside a stacked postition, but never three. And I never liked how they worked, which I attributed to the stickier feel of the Mike Rogers Baseballs, but may be due, as Bill said, to the slightly narrower attic.


I can do a 3 ball display with the monkey fist balls that I use on top of the uday aluminium cups. Therefore will I be able to do this on the bazars?

I have the Mike Rogers balls also and although good for sleight of hand work they stick far too much to the sides of the cups. I'd prefer crochet balls or monkey fists any day.

However I love the weight of the baseballs... the core of the baseballs in a monkey fist would be absolutely perfect IMHO.

Quote:
On 2005-03-08 09:59, swatchel-omi wrote:
I think Bill is too modest to mention that his website: http://www.adessoverlag.com/cupsandballs.htm has some of the best deals on purchasing a set of cups and balls I've ever seen. There are some nice midrange cups, and they come with everything you need to get going. Check it out.

Joe


Yes that's where I am getting the bazar copper cups from. The sheer range of stuff that comes with the sets is amazing for the price. I can't wait to try out the close up mat that comes with it. Bill makes them himself.

Steven.
chrisrkline
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That is exactly what happens with me. I love the baseballs, and I am horrible now with the crochet balls. But since I am now doing the Gazzo routine (which does not require the move), and have shifted to his very large footballs (1 1/4 in) the point is moot.

I just looked at my Bazzar with my baseballs. It is not a problem doing the move from Carl Andrews Table Hopping C&Bs. The load seems easier now (maybe I am just better) but I don't know about three. They will sit up there fine, and the cups nest with no trouble, but just depends on how you get them there. I am not familiar with any routines that do that with three balls on top.
Chris
Bob Johnston
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Am I missing something. What is the problem if the cups wobble a bit.

The frame of reference for most audience members to our cup, are cups they may have at home that I am sure would not fit without a wobble, if stacked. I would think the less contrived looking the cups look to the average person, the better.

If you look at Bill Palmer’s great collection of cups, it is clear that early cups were meant to look as un-assuming as possible.

I started out with Pjenix cups, a champion of wobble. It never hurt my routine one bit. No one ever asked me why my cups did not fit together like a glove.

Another frame of reference might be this:
Magician No. 1 uses a highly polished (rings like a bell) container for Misers Dream.

Magician No. 2 uses a coffee can with Maxwell House printed on the side.

Which magician (all other things being equal), would the average spectator think was the most amazing magician.

I can hear it now. Bob says to Jim, “those two magicians are great.”
Jim says to Bob, “yea, but how about the guy with the coffee can, just a regular empty can of coffee, that was something.

Hear is even a more fun scenario. Suppose Michael Ammar goes to house one in his best tux and does C&B with his best copper cups.

Now he goes to house 2 and does his C&B routine (and he has done this) in street clothing and cups from the home owners cupboard and some grapes.

We magicians would probably think the tux and copper version was better. I would probably be in that group.

But I would suggest to you that the real coffee cups and grapes audience would be at least as impressed, if not more.

Bob
chrisrkline
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I agree that the wobble is not important (unless it is excessive and affects a move) but not because it seems more "natural" to lay people. Lay people rarely stack their own glasses and cups, and when they do, they don't spend time thinking about the wobble (unless it threatens to tip over.) Most lay people have never seen a cups and balls routine and are amazed by any routine they see that is competent. But I think in any sized crowd, or from any distance, a nice C&Bs routine with a nice set of metal cups will go over better than mugs and grapes. If I perform a street routine, with a crowd of thirty people, it would seem silly to stop and run and pick up some empty dixie cups and some grapes to finish my routine. I am doing a show. The crowd knows I have prepared and rehearsed this show. So they would know that the effect with the dixie cups is planned too. But they would wonder why I am trying to make it look more impromptu. In a close up situation, the coffee mugs with the grapes may be better. But not because people will think, "Hey this is certainly better than if he had pulled out some nice engraved Sherwood cups," but because the close-up situation "seemed" more impromptu--which is appropriate for the situation. But the advantage of it being "impromptu" fades a little if it is done in an obvious set up situation, even close up. Do a coffee mug C&Bs at every other table in a restaurant, as a strolling magician, and its "naturalness" fades away and the routine, good or bad, is no different than one with metal cups. Doing the routine for friends some Sunday dinner at Ryan's Restaurant, and that would be nice.

But working as a magician, one advantage to nicer cups is that you have more of an opportunity to build up the effect and make it special. Skinner was remembered (by magicians) for doing a nice C&Bs on, I think, the Johnny Carson show, with coffee cups and grapes. But he still told Ammar that when he did the routine for real, he did it with nice cups because he felt the routine should have some dignity. With mugs, you have to make it seem "impromptu" which is hard to do if people have seen you perform it five other times. Same thing with the Misers Dream analogy. Impromptu, doing it with a can of folgers is good; Do it on a stage, and doing it with a fancy can is better. On stage it is part of your act and people are going to wonder why you can't afford a better can (unless you are doing this at a Folger's Stockholders Meeting.)
Chris
Bob Johnston
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The analogies where meant to illustrate the unimportance of a little wobble in the cups. This forum gets way too serious sometimes.

I use and invest in expensive cups. I would not want to use paper cups at a large venue. But, in my opinion, both of my analogies where good.

Bob
Pete Biro
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In addition to Skinner, as mentioned, Bruce Cervon does a GREAT cups and balls routine with coffee cups.

The strongest layman reaction I have ever had was an impromptu routine in a restaurant using tea cups. People still talk about it, the fact that I just grabbed three teacups and didi this amazing routine with lemons appearing under the cups.

Check out Bob Read's "Penultimate Cups and Balls."

He used one classic cup, one paper cup and one coffee mug... one of the best routines of all time.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Bill Palmer
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Absolutely! Got to agree with you on that. It shows up on eBay from time to time.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
chrisrkline
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Sorry if I seemed too serious. I agree that a good impromptu version of cups and balls is great. I did one one time with coffee mugs at Denny's. I had set up for the routine on five previous occassions, with the loads and all, until I had the right moment. I did vernon's basic routine with dinner rolls for loads. I too got very nice reactions.
Chris
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