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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Spellbound (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Josh Riel
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The original question:



Quote:
On 2005-03-09 23:09, nick vassil wrote:
Sometimes this seems to me to be like the Ambitious Card of coins. In my routine silver changes back and forth to copper about six times (3 time silver, 3 times copper) then ends with silver to jumbo. How about you?


My answer is it changes twice then falls on the floor I then pick it up and begin again (I'm just begginning with these G@# D@*& Coins). But I still like your Encyclopedia Mr Rubenstein.

I've been a coin begginner for about two years.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Michael Rubinstein
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I like routines that have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Most spellbound routines are just the middle. I think that for myself (and this will depend on the routine and your performance style, only around 4 changes are necessary. Unless you re creative with your moves so that the routine is interesting to look at, and unless it fits in with what you are trying to get across, many more changes would just be overproving that you can do it and will soon dull the magic. That doesn't mean that it should never be done with more moves, that's just how it works for me.
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Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2005-03-17 20:02, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
That doesn't mean that it should never be done with more moves, that's just how it works for me.
I'm pretty sure, it works for most that way..continuous repetions of a change from one coin to another get boring for the specs and are more a 'puzzle' them magic..it should be keep short, as everything else.

To 'really' show at the end that soley one coin is used, is what makes them wonder when being through the routine..I think any Spellbound should be that clean, that one is able to 'really' and clearly show soley one coin is left in the hand..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
JoeFreedom
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I agree with Jonathan and Michael. Spellbound needs to be part of a routine to be most effective. I use it as part of Wild Coin, thus the beginning, middle and end. It is a great effect that has a great effect.
Joe
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Chris "linkster" Watson
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I remember a posting by Bill Palmer I believe who got to see Albert Goshman perform a spell bound for several minutes and kept Bill captivated. So I guess it can be done....helps if you have the talent and persona of Mr Goshman though.
Curtis Kam
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You guys might be interested in Caleb Strange's project over in the Bizarre magic section. He's scripting presentations for all of the magic in Stars of Magic, and this month's effect is spellbound. To find it quickly, and miss out on an entirely good presentation for "Cutting the Aces" go to the end of this thread:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......4&15
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Al Schneider
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I have seen Al Goshman do the routine several times. He offered to teach it to me. He put great effort into making one coin simply blink to another coin. He was very successful. In this thread several have said something to the effect that Spellbound looks like juggling. I have found Spellbound to be a weak trick. It never gets a good response. I love it. I really do. But it has been said elsewhere in this thread that it works well in other routines. I find this to be true. I use Spellbound moves in my Cone and Coin routine. It is in the DVD set someplace(Al Schneider Technique). One person I taught it to reported that his audience would sometimes accuse him of being a real warlock when he did it. I think the problem with a basic Spellbound routine is that the audience thinks that there is another coin someplace or the coin is painted copper on the other side. They are not as dumb as some believe.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
mike gallo
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Al...Welcome to the Café!

Mike
Curtis Kam
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Welcome, indeed, from another of the many fans of your work. Regarding the shortcomings of Spellbound, you pointed out two:

"I think the problem with a basic Spellbound routine is that the audience thinks that there is another coin someplace or the coin is painted copper on the other side...."

This is why I have had much more success with a triple change spellbound than the Vernon/Victor original concept. The two solutions you've suggested become far less likely when the coin changes thrice. I recall that you once published a routine involving a transparent coin, and one involving something other than just coins, but I do not recall seeing a triple change routine of yours. Have you experimented with this concept?

What about the theory that a change of size is more magical than a change of coins? Anyone have any data?
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Dan Watkins
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I use the fact that people think that you are using extra coins to my advantage in my quadruple spellbound routine as can be seen on the LVMI Live 2003 DVD.

I do a quad change sequence, and then play into what people think I am doing (and am doing) - using fancy moves to switch around four coins.

Then the "real" magic occurs when I dump all the coins onto the table, pick one coin up and repeat the four changes...

I could obviously just do the 2nd phase as a stand alone routine, but I think the end of my 1st phase eliminates the notion of "fancy moves with extra coins", thus making the 2nd phase more impossible...
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Kainoa
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A wonderful application of spellbound is Curtis's Wild Pocket. It can be found in Deceptions in Paradise and the Professional Magic of Curtis Kam. Their are a number of nice things about it; first, you can rework the routine to highlight whatever spellbound techniques you do--so you can customize the routine to fit your style and technique. Second, it involves both the change of type and change of size (and is one of the few routines that end with coins getting smaller rather than larger--a fact that has made some magicians a little confused). Finally, it's also quite useful for tablehoppers as it gets your props back into your pocket as part of the trick.
ithomson
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Quote:
I think the problem with a basic Spellbound routine is that the audience thinks that there is another coin someplace or the coin is painted copper on the other side.

This has always been my problem with this routine, particularly if the coin is changing type (half dollar to penny) rather than material (silver half to gold half).

However, if the focus of attention is elsewhere the result is dramatic. In Hooser's "Charming Chinese Challenge" a basic spellbound move provides a very visual penetration of a chinese coin on and off a ribbon. The audience's attention is on the plot and the ribbon. I find this portion of the effect gets very strong reactions.

Ian
Curtis Kam
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Agreed, Ian, but there are also ways to remain true to the original "transformation" theme that also work. Sometimes, sheer quantity does create quality. So it is with Daryl's 30 phase Ambitious Card, and David Neighbor's 10 change spellbound. It was 10, right David? It seemed like more.

Another very effective reworking of the basic mechanics is something Reed McClintock gave to Genii a while back. He used the Spellbound methodology to cause ink spots on a coin to magically gather together, ala Matrix.

I recently had the pleasure of seeing Paul Chosse's spellbound routine that also addresses Al Schneider's objections, and it's a terrific mystery.
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ithomson
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Quote:
On 2005-05-27 06:13, Curtis Kam wrote:
Agreed, Ian, but there are also ways to remain true to the original "transformation" theme that also work.


Absolutely. But *for me* the basic half-to-penny transformation doesn't. However Reed's effect sounds more up my street.

I remain unconvinced about the "quantity to quality" equation, particularly for lay audiences.

Ian
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2005-05-26 22:26, Al Schneider wrote:...his audience would sometimes accuse him of being a real warlock when he did it...


I'd like to see this. Just the word picture brings stories to mind too. I put a presentation premise for exactly this on the other thread, with a credit and thanks to Al.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
phread
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If I may...i have been experimenting with EG in a spellbound routine as well as a gold half with a silver one, or a chrome plated english penny with a copper one.
changes that seem to make more sense.
dug
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Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2005-05-26 23:21, Curtis Kam wrote:
What about the theory that a change of size is more magical than a change of coins? Anyone have any data?
No, but I recall Fred Kaps did use a Silverdollar and an english Penny, so both a change of size and colour occured..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
phread
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md
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Quote:
What about the theory that a change of size is more magical than a change of coins? Anyone have any data?

I don't know about data-but I have used a barber half and a morgan silver to make the eagle on the back of the half more visible.
dug
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Al Schneider
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Boy you guys move fast.
Here is an effort to answer some questions.
1 I use Spellbound moves to effect an Extraction of Silver. Uses the plastic coin.
2 I had a 4 phase routine. C/S , oriental coin with hole and a flat large diamond.
It went silver, copper, oriental to glass diamond. Simple. Never used it much.
3 Change of size is good but does not get significant mileage beyond standard.
4 Curious, when I used an oriental coin I was accused of just turning coin around.
This is of course illogical when one side would have hole and the other would not??

Ribbon and Spellbound sounds good. Been doing something like that.
Later everyone.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
David Neighbors
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Hi Curtis,
Yea It was 10! ! I am up to 13 now! Smile! For layman I use my 5 way handleing most the time! But I did use the 10 way For the mile high close-up show last week!

Best David Neighbors
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