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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Maybe it's just me, but this effect doesn't appeal to me because it reads like a puzzle vs. an "impossible" magic effect.
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magicinsight Inner circle 4293 Posts |
Larry,
I was curious if you also considered the "bounce/no bounce ball" and/or "Newton's Nightmare" routine also a puzzle? While I understand and respect your opinion, this effect can have a strong and magical impact if presented well, especially as part of an interesting story. I was thinking of using it as part of a story involving the Salem witch burnings when people thought that someone was a witch they would put you in water. If you floated, you were considered a witch and burned at the stake. If you sank, you drowned but at least you were not considered a witch. A no win situtation if you ask me. I would incorporate this effect in this type of story and to see if either the performer (me) or the spectator (depending upon the spectator and your/his/her sense of fun) was really a witch. I am sure Eugene Burger would have fun with this. If the presentation is done well and the proper mood is set, I think this effect can be very strong and magical. Best regards, Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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Logan Inner circle 2289 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-14 20:14, tbaer wrote: You have a point and I am with you on this. Daegs, I see where you're coming from and I can say what you say is true. But the fact remains that spectators are not as dumb as we like to think (sadly). With a card to wallet or a colour change, they may think "He must've placed it there, but no wait, I was holding on the card..."etc. So the conclusions they make are faulted due to our presentation. But from what I've read, this is pretty straight forward, and the 1st thing I thought was "Gotta be a switch". What's gonna stop speckies from thinking the same thing? Unless maybe the presentation handles that, then good stuff! Then again I know next to nothing about this product so any info regarding how to negate that mental out would be helpful. Take care guys, Logan
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal.
Singapore's Hairiest Corporate Comedy Magician! |
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magicinsight Inner circle 4293 Posts |
Logan,
In addition to the story about burning witches that I previously mentioned,you can add something to the effect such as a magic potion, etc. that will take the focus away from the ball and put the focus on the story and on the "magic potion" that you are ading to the glass of water that causes the magic to happen. You can tell a story such as that there were some people who were far more evil than any known or unknown witches. They would use peoples' hatred and superstitions for their own evil, greedy purposes. There were those who desired other peoples lands. They knew that if the owner was accused and proven to be a witch, the owner would be burned at the stake,the owner's family would be evicted from the province and the person would be able to take hold of the property for a mere pennies. No one would want property owned by witches afterall. It was easy to accuse someone of being a witch. But how would one go about proving it. Even if the accused did not float and drowned, that person would not be considered a witch and the land would still belong to the family. So a method had to be arranged where a person who was falsey accused, would still float in the water and be proved a witch. One person living in this small village came across a woman who lived quietly and secretly in a small cottage in the woods near Salem. She perhaps had features of what many would consider to be witch-like characateristics. She gave him a potion that when poured into the water would cause the person to float in the water, even thought that person woas not a witch. So he eagerly paid this woman a handsome amount of money and took the potion. The next day he accused the land owner of being a witch and he was quickly seized. Despite his pronouncement of innocence, he was tied and thrown in a large vat fiiled with water in the public square. First the man sank. (Real ball into glass) They pulled him out to try again just to make sure. The evil man poured the liquid (light food coloring or water, etc) into the vat, and sure enough when they threw him back in, he started to float(use other ball). Just as they were going to take the poor man to the stake to be burned with his family pleasding for his life, and just as the evil man was sneekering and salavating over his deceit, the woman who sold the potion came into the town square to accuse the evil man of what he did and told the story about how the evil man made a secret potion to make the landonwer appear to float. The towns people quickly took the evil man and threw him into the same vat. But now the potion had weakend and the man sank to the bottom and died. (Put real ball into galss again). As a reward, they gave the woman the land owned by this evil man. True evil lies in a person''s heart, not in a superstitions. Best regards, Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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runawayjag Inner circle 1085 Posts |
There was an old trick done with a penny very similar to the ball. You borrowed a penny and placed it on a little piece of paper napkin, then gently placed it on the surface of a glass of water. It floated. Eventually, the napkin soaked up water and separated and sank to the bottom of the glass while the penny remained floating. It was then removed, dried and handed back to the lending spectator. Of course, while drying off the coin, the "work" was done. It was very clever and people do not immediately realize a small coin won't float.
One of the early premises also involved shaking a very small quantity of salt into the glass of water, making it a "Great Salt Lake," and, allegedly, the salt increased the density of the water enough that a coin would float. Of course, that's all absurd, but having done this way back when I worked at a bar in Rock Island, I can personally attest to how people take a penny and a glass of water and try it, thinking it will really work. I also think there was a version in one of the Al Baker books (I could be wrong here, but it's an older book,) where a coin does, in fact, rise and sink slowly in a glass of water. The ball bearing is a cool idea but I, too, wish I had seen Vernon do this to get an idea of why magicians were so baffled, I would think the "work," even if not actually seen, would be immediately evident to even a novice. |
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Logan Inner circle 2289 Posts |
Michael,
That was a very nice, if a little long, presentation idea. But I can see where you're going and I like the way you draw the focus off the ball and to the liquid. Nice stuff. Take care, Logan
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal.
Singapore's Hairiest Corporate Comedy Magician! |
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magicinsight Inner circle 4293 Posts |
Logan,
Thank you most kindly. I tend to talk too much, especially after a cup of coffee. Thank you again for your kind and generous words. Best regards, Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-15 09:24, magicinsight wrote: My answer is pretty much "yes" to both. I think that you can entertain audiences with these effects (I own both), and in fact I created a Bounce/No Bounce Ball effect that gets a great audience response because I hook them and then reel them in, but the audience's response is based on them being entertained, not on them witnessing something that appears impossible. I'm sure that this ball bearing effect can be used to entertain as well, but it still reads like a science experiment to me. Larry P.S. - Thanks for respecting my opinion and also thanks for disagreeing with me! I neither expect nor want anyone to share the exact same thoughts I have on everything. |
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magicinsight Inner circle 4293 Posts |
Larry,
I appreciate your consistency in your opinion pertaining to the bounce/no bounce ball, Newton's nightmare and the floating ball effect. I can certainly see your point that this effect, as well as the others just mentioned, can be construed as being just a "science project." But as you also stated, which I also agree with, that it can be entertaining if presented well. This effect is not a show stopper or a closer, but it certainly does have entertainemnt value, and perhaps even a magical flare to it if presented with an appropriate and interesting story such as I presented in the previous posts. Even if the spectators are "just" entertained by it and not emotionally drawn into the effect, at least they were entertained and that is half the battle. Best regards, Michael P.S. You are most very welcomed. It is always good to share and discuss issues and topics with people who have sometimes similar and sometimes divergent views, as long as peoples' valid opinions and viewpoints are respected.
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-14 20:14, tbaer wrote: Duh. Everyone knows that ___________ can't _________ (fill in the blank.) That's what magic is all about. It's about doing things that are impossible. This is essentially a bar trick. You make it happen, let the spectator try it, and then they can't do it. It may not be your cup of tea. If you can't sell the idea that the surface tension of the water can be increased, then you probably shouldn't do this trick. Leave it for someone who knows how to sell plausible mystery.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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magicinsight Inner circle 4293 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-15 19:00, Bill Palmer wrote: Dear Bill, I like your phrase, "plausible mystery." You are absolutely correct that this type of effect, as many others, requires the performer to create the belief that the effect or mystery is plausible. This effect, when performed at the appropriate venue and setting with a convincing story or plot, can create a "plausible mystery" that is entertaining as well. The "plausibility" is created by the performer. Without the "plausibility" there can not be a "mystery." Best regards, Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I must admit that I nicked the term from Walt Disney. He referred to the things that happened in his movies/cartoons as "The Plausible Impossible." In the old days of the Mickey Mouse Club, which was really a one hour ad for Disneyland (even before it was built!), he would come on for a few minutes each show and explain some of the ideas behind his cartoons.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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magicinsight Inner circle 4293 Posts |
Bill,
Do you still have your mouse ears? Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Bill, didn't you have an operation to have those fixed?
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Magick29 New user 70 Posts |
In regards to doing this with a coin, KC magician Tom Burgoon had a version in his book with a dime where you dropped the coin into a glass of beer and it slowly floated back to the top. It was interesting because there was nothing hooked to the coin, no IT, etc.
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