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magic guy New user Kansas 27 Posts |
One of my biggest personal obstacles to learning anything is when I call it "uninteresting."
Never had that problem with the cups and balls. I love the way they keep teaching me. In 1997, I learned my first routine from Mark Wilson's book; then I bought a set of Mike Rogers mini-baseballs. They were hard, and they talked in my cheap cups, so I had to learn a new way to load them. I bought Michael Ammar's book and learned everything in it -- and found out from that book about Gazzo and Paul Gertner. Bought Gertner's book and learned to do the act with stainless steel ball bearings. Met Gazzo by telephone and learned his cups and balls from his books. Talked with Whit Haydn about the cups and balls and the rings and lots more. Read more about the history and the work in lots of other references. And I've recently read Tommy Wonder's take on the act as well. But with cups on the table and ball bearings scooting between them, my best teachers have been my street audiences. Man, if you're boring or plain bad, they'll walk away from you. If you're doing something technically wrong, they'll spot you and bust your chops. One epiphany hit me early last summer during a show: Load "small" from the FRONT of the cups. Seems so obvious now, but for six doggone years I'd done it from the right-hand side, and kids in the audience, with their "look-under-the-cups-to-see-what-he's-doing" vantage point, could glimpse the work. Load from the front, and the little rascals can't see anything -- not even if they're looking at the cups from under your arms. Stupid me! Suddenly, I was able to stop blaming the kids for my own shortcomings -- and start giving them a good show. Boy-oh-boy, I wonder what I'll learn next from my cups and balls?
Poetry is magic with words; magic is wordless poetry.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The cups and balls is an inherently silly trick. It is stupid and boring. You should all pack up all your sets of cups and balls and sent them to me.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
I have set up a special "mail drop" for your junk cups (time to clean those Fox cups out of your cupboard, you'll never use them anyway)
Send them to Bill Palmer c/o Dave VanVranken Las Vegas, NV and I'll make sure he gets them ... eventually... some day...
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Enigmo Loyal user 215 Posts |
Mario, it's good that the quote had that effect on you.
Since you don't care where the quote could come from here's one of mine: "No one can be a magician until he stops performing the 21 card trick --- Enigmo" Let's see if it becomes as popular... I am personnally simply curious to find out in which context Houdini said his. I would truly find it funny if that quote was actually a marketing catch phrase that was created to boost sales of a Houdini cups & balls kit that he produced. Bill and Dave, if you end up getting identical spare sets send them to me. J-L |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Enigmo:
I would use your quote if I could. However, The first time I heard about the way John Cornelius does the 21 card trick, I nearly fell out of my chair. I was laughing and amazed at the same time. A friend of mine asked John what kind of magic he did, and John replied that he did original magic. So my friend asked him to show him a trick. John shuffled the deck, had my friend cut off about half of the deck, and remember the bottom card of the part he had cut off. Then he had my friend shuffle the cards thoroughly. He gave the cards to John. John dealt them on the table, face up in three rows. Then he said, "Which row contains your card?" My friend said, "Uh, John, every 10-year-old knows that trick." So John said, "Oh. Then I won't do it." And he gathered all the cards up...except for the card my friend had looked at! That's the way to do the 21 card trick. And Chuck Smith has several methods that are equally baffling.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Mario Morris Inner circle Mario Morris 2044 Posts |
I said I don't care if he said it or not.
Since I all ready being saying it for years. I did not say I don't care where the quote could come from. |
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dmk_kirkland Loyal user 256 Posts |
Hi Eric,
I have few points to make. First. Eric who have you seen do the Cups the Balls? I've seen Gazzo do them several times and he never fails to amaze. I've also seen Dominique Duviver (sp) do his duelling Cups and Balls routine with his daughter and it is very good as well. So I guess my first point is that while you may hate it, many audiences enjoy the C&Bs. Naturally for them to enjoy it, it needs to be a good routine with a good presentation. Guessing every time where the ball is ..... Buzzer ... Nope you're wrong - is not a good presentation. A couple of things about the quote. I suspect that at the time of Houdini magic had fewer places to perform, and in those places the C&B were probably suitable. Today magic is done in theatres, bars, restaurants, trade shows, kid shows, grand openings etc. In some places the C&B are more problematic to perform, but as some have already pointed out, there are ways to perform them or atleast some version. I would also guess that at the time of the quote, magic was less prevalent and accessable. Today with the internet and the amount of exposure, the secrets are really available for the taking. What I'm getting at is, I believe that Houdini took a classic trick as a standard by which to measure the level of a magician. At the time of the quote this was probably a fair assessment. I think that's the point of a classic trick, it gives us a standard to live up to. You can't really compare one person's Ambitious card routine with another. There's too much variation - the technology has changed e.g. Cards ends up in a wallet, the deck ends up a solid, the deck ends up as a clear block, or the deck vanishes. Remember Houdini was fooled by a DB card - these were not prevalent at the time. With a classic trick what distinguishes it is what the magician brings to the effect. Compared to back then, the nature of magic has really changed ... in several ways. Remember people would go to Houdini's show and sit for an hour just to watch him escape. I don't think any audience would stand for that today. Today we tend to be satisfied by the quick visual, the quick fix. People often specialize in cards, coins, ropes, illusions, close-up, stage etc. Take a look at Martin Nash - he pretty much does only cards. These days the variety and amount of tricks out there allow you to go a long time without ever touching the C&B. I apologize since this post has kind of gone all over the place, but I have one last point to make. If you could take a trick as repetitive and boring as the Cups and Balls and perform it in such a way that you received a standing ovation, with the audience saying "That's the best magician I've ever seen - that was real magic" wouldn't you aggree that then you would be a true magician? See you at the next meeting.
Cheers,
David |
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Enigmo Loyal user 215 Posts |
Mario,
Sorry I misunderstood your post. In any case, it gave me the opportunity for being silly for a post. All I am saying is that quote has been used frequently as sort of a commendment to learn the Cups & Balls. I am just curious to find out if Houdini really meant it as such... Bill, Actually, Marlo also has a nice 21 card routine in Marlo without tears. Someone fooled me once with it. In any case, you're proving my point that a quote needs context to fully appreciate it. Eric, The answer to your question is NO; you are not the only one who hates the cups and balls... There are 4 billion people on earth. Chances are very good that there is someone else who hates the cups and balls. I also understand your point of view and what you are saying in terms of practicability. From a business point of view, cups & balls might not be the number one recommendation of where to invest your resources... As for myself, while I actually love the cups and balls, I do hate the fact that it's a routine that is not practical enough for me to perform more frequently... |
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Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-16 12:29, Enigmo wrote: From where did you get this number. 6,5 Billion is much more true. http://www.kaufering.de/Bevoelkerung/people.htm Check this site... |
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plodrich New user 2 Posts |
I like cups and balls but I'm bored of it. people should put their creativity into some new wierd object like mobile phones etc
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Houdini probably didn't mean you had to like the cups, only that considering all that it could teach you about timing, misdirection, audience interaction, sleight of hand, etc... that you need to adequately understand all these concepts to be a good magician, and the Cups and Balls satisfies all those requirements quite nicely.
I think he said it perfectly. He summed up in one sentence what it's taken us three pages of posts to try and explain.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
He didn't even say you had to perform them. He just said that you had to master them.
You could make a similar statement about scales and chords when you are talking about music. I don't considar a person to be a real musician, until he has mastered the major and minor scales and the chords on his instrument. The cups and balls contain the basic elements, i.e. the scales and chords, of magic.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Enigmo Loyal user 215 Posts |
Roland,
Since I don't speak Dutch or whatever, I'll take your word. For all I can tell this counter is the number of BigMacs sold in Holland... I actually initially seemed to recall it was above 6B but I corrected myself. I guess I fail the test. It also means I have to review my life project plan since there are 2B more people I have to show my cups and balls to than I originally estimated... J-L |
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Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-17 00:53, Enigmo wrote: German! lol Quote:
On 2005-04-17 00:53, Enigmo wrote: Yeah, that's probably the hardest part. But remember a lot of them probably HATE the Cups and balls. |
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garyanimal Regular user UK 136 Posts |
Cups and balls suck.
Er .... rock |
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Mario Morris Inner circle Mario Morris 2044 Posts |
No, its just you with cups and balls that suck.
Mario lol |
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Eric Leclerc Inner circle Ottawa Ontario 1185 Posts |
Mario
all your posts seem really defensive about this subject...RELAX...you didn't invent the trick... you just like it... prends sa cool mon homme |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts |
Eric, you may be one of the few magicians looking at this forum topic to 'hate' the cups and balls; but so what? You have created a great forum topic which has caught the attention of several masters. Wow? I enjoy watching c&b routines, but gravitate more towards cards, and various manipulations done without a table. By the way, among crowds who are attracted to c&b, there ARE those people who walk away, even from a great performer. So you are not truly alone.
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magic guy New user Kansas 27 Posts |
Hey Whit, speaking of your upcoming gig on the Deadwood set, I just got my School for Scoundrels Introduction to the Shell Game DVD.
OH, MAN! Great quality, and the printable files at the end are excellent. I can understand Houdini's statement from the standpoint that this is going to be a snap compared to the cups-and-balls, and I absolutely am going to add the Golden Shells to my street act -- NEVER for money, of course, but for fun. Accepting money for street magic is outlawed in Wichita, and I suspect that has a lot to do with three-shell game, Monte, and fast-and-loose practitioners fleecing the cowpokes who passed through here in the Chisolm Trail days. Maybe I can work that into the patter. It doesn't pay, but the audiences make me look critically at my magic.
Poetry is magic with words; magic is wordless poetry.
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Mario Morris Inner circle Mario Morris 2044 Posts |
Eric
I am relaxing thanks, I was having a bit of fun with Gary Animal. Not only is he a Master of the Cups and Balls, he makes the Gazzo cups and a hole range of other cups. He has giving me some great advise in the past, and I have three different sets of cups from him, great guy, who is well versed in C&B. You can learn a lot from him. As for my other posts I am not defensive but rather I believe I have something to offer you on this subject. In other words I have been trying to educate you in C&B. I don't mind if you don't tack on my advise. I am enjoying hearing from folk that enjoy C&B. If you say something I disagree on and I think I have slant on it, I will say it but my aim is to be helpful. Mario PS On that note, (Just a bit of fun) A Poem "To My Death Bed" I do think I have been mistreated by Cups, I have wanted the pride of place in the Magic World, but the cups said no that is my place, The haunting noise clinking cups, Clink de Clink, Clink de clink, not the cups no never will I do cups, I will do cards, coins, bending spoons, I will even learn to levitate things, Clink de Clink, Clink de clink, To my death bed do I vow, To hate cups and that sound, never will I admit, that I missed out on the greatest trick, Clink de Clink, Clink de clink, (Not a great poem I know, just some fun) Love Mario |
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