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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Derren Brown back on TV » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jordan Waller
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IMO I don't think anyone is seriously troubled by this editing. Lets be quite honest there wasn't a single effect on that show that couldn't be replicated in some way are other by yourself, and most of the time performed almost identicaly to what we saw. Think about it. You are just picking at nothing on this one. Of course there is going to be editing, so what! I mean there were several effects on the show that we could all do with just the old swami gimmick at hand...........
One day I will write a book
Socrates
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Derren has lost of a lot of the impact that he had with the first mind control show, back then it was new and Brownies didn't exist.

Nowadays there are many, many magicians who have purchased some mental magic gimmicks and now choose to call themselves 'Psychological Illusionists'.

Brown is the new Blaine...

Socrates

'If we do not change our direction, we are likely to end up where we are headed' - Chinese proverb Smile
bobser
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Quote:
On 2005-04-11 18:50, Don McCleod wrote:
I have to agree with Nick. There is so much editing going on that I question exactly what is going on. There comes a point where you have to ask whether your intelligence is being insulted or not with all this editing. I saw the beginnings of this in the last series and now I think they are beginning to take the mick. Derren was always walking a fine line between credibility and blatant trickery now he seems to have crossed the line and lost the 'is he for real' sheen he used to have. Just my opinion, of course.


I think Derren Brown was one of the finest things to hit our TV screens, and with the help of his background team took our art to a new level. And I am still a huge fan.

However, I can understand perfectly what Don Mcleod is saying (also Nick23).
I feel the emotions always come first before one intellectualises as to WHY they feel as they do, so in all fairness I'm going to watch it over again. However I have to say that for me, watching it for the first time, I would have to honestly agree that it was pushing editing to a whole new level.

Sure, as some of you have said we can do all these things in real time, but not like THAT! (and as you know neither can Derren so let's be sensible)

And the last one with the BMX bike I have to say, for me personally, was way way way over the line when it came to pushing the halfpenny just a bit too far and yes I think it did insult many people's intelligence when he suggested how this demonstration of NLP was achieved. Of course this was a similar genre to the 'advertising executives' being cajoled to write down 'their' idea in an earlier programme (which actually did fool many magicians I spoke too... WOW!).

Tha challenge for me is this. I don't know if it's dillusions of grandeur with the 'Objective' team but the whole secret of magic and mentalism is surely to have the audience conceive & believe that "Ah yes, it's... possible!".
Once you do the impossible one by one the numbers start to fall. I know you'll fool some but why not step back and fool all?

An analogy would be Daryl's 'Ultra-Monte'
(no disrespect to Daryl, for me he truly is a legend. However we never get it all right all of the time).
The problem with it is because of the gimmick you're allowed to demonstrate a total miracle, which most magicians will tell you is why they DON'T do it!
This is because 'good' magicians/mentalists 'don't' fall into the trap of thinking like a magician/mentalist. We always try to view it from the public's perspective.
But 'please God' let it be an intelligent perspective!

Like I said, I AM an admirer of Derren's, but on the first showing of this I have to be honest and say that it looks like everything now seems to be coming from the same source... and this to me doesn't seem to be a great marketing idea, unless of course Derren 'wants' to be found out, before writing his memoirs as a great trickster, before starting off on a new career? Now THAT would explain everything!

Bobser.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Fabio P
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Would anybody recording the show on a tape for me? I would pay for the service plus shipping. PM me.
Thanks

Fabio
Smoking Camel
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Hmmmm, I watched it with non magicians and they were all taken in by the NLP stuff. and too be honest I can see how a lot of the routines could be done without much editing at all.

I did love derrens staring routine. Never again will any scrote say, "what are you looking at?" at him. Brilliant idea.
I no longer smoke camel cigarettes.
bobser
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Matt I also watched it with lay people, NONE of who were taken in by the NLP stuff.
I'm not sure what this actually means however.

And I do agree that not just some but indeed ALL of the ideas could be done, in fact with no editing whatsoever.

I think the only point that I would make would be that 'it's the little difference that makes the big difference'. And that little bit of editing, to my mind, is actually huge.
ie: small biro but massive dark writing....and either incredibly neat or not shown.

And with the old guy with the wallet in his pocket... now that's what I call pre-show!!!!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
D.Paul
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I noticed with one of the change in pocket predictions he flashed the card by mistake towards the camara before he placed into the envelope and you could see it was blank. Ive only seen the program once but I'm pritty sure he did.
Jordan Waller
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None of you for one minute are telling me that if you have your own television show you aren't going to use editing in this way. If you have the option of making it completly clean or having some kind of visual compromise, what would you choose?
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Nick23
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Magicians are notorious for proclaiming that "no camera tricks were used during the making of this show". Although Derren doesn’t say that, I think most people think its implied because they have heard it so often before similar shows. If you do decide to use camera tricks though, there is NOTHING you can't do. Where do you draw the line at believability/creditability? I don’t know.

Of course, magic is partly about deception, so even if you do say it, that doesn't mean you can't lie and use it anyway Smile
Nothing I do can't be done by a 10-year-old...with 15 years of practice."
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magic in mind
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The bmx bike..luke jermay anyone.
salsa_dancer
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Aren't editing and camera angles just another set of weapons in the mentalists arsenal. Next people will be saying that we shouldn't use any method to create the effect of being able to read minds.

If you can't do it for real you are out of a job.
Alexander Marsh
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Can't we just be happy for Derren. 2nd series of Trick of the Mind must be somthing like the 9th TV thing he's done. He's on his 2nd tour and seems a much more happy man than he used to be.
Tom DV
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I thought it was a great show - very entertaining - I have nothing more to say!

Tom. (see how easy it is)
bobser
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Quote:
On 2005-04-12 11:47, magic in mind wrote:
The bmx bike..luke jermay anyone.


Are you saying it was Luke Jermay's BMX bike? Or are we supposed to be mind-readers?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
salsa_dancer
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Quote:
On 2005-04-13 05:40, bobser wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-04-12 11:47, magic in mind wrote:
The bmx bike..luke jermay anyone.


Are you saying it was Luke Jermay's BMX bike? Or are we supposed to be mind-readers?


Derren used Luke Jermay's bike just to do a turn on the telly. The bar steward!
cupsandballsmagic
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SO, let me get this right..... the new wave of mentalists class themselves as excellent communicators.... < < < GULP! > > >

I bet Derren is reading this and P*****G his pants!
The Gentleman
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Hah, he's on tour now so don't bet on it; but I am willing to bet he vanity-searches: Don't we all?

Guys, Derren's an excellent magician, with patter that works. He seems to base his personal beliefs on questioning and as such I am willing to bet he doesn't believe his own patter: That would make him no better than the psychics he so thoroughly debunks.

He makes very entertaining shows, and I for one will shake his hand.

Also: The Simon Pegg thing; Remember that offerred method is more than possible, if A)Derren is more amazing than we give him credit for, or B) After the pattern break there is some deepening that was editted out.
richpoyle
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Havn't seen the 1st show yet but I feel compelled to comment.

I admit to being a tad disappointed by the 1st series of 'Trick of the Mind' in that it did seem to rely too much on editing to enhance the effects.

The posts so far indicate this technique has been taken a stage further, which could be a problem.

Having recently seen Derren perform live for the 2nd time and again being hugely impressed and inspired by his show, I for one would prefer a TV series more in keeping with the kind of stuff he does live. The 'Seance' special is a superb example of this, as it followed very closely the plot of his last tour but with enhanced elements that could only be done on TV.

I'll be back after Friday when I've watched the 1st programme but at the moment, I'm a bit concerned ... Sometimes the 'impossible' really is impossible, whichever NLP or suggestion spin you give it!
The Gentleman
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I was going to point out that Simon Pegg isn't just an "actor", he wrote and starred in Shaun of the Dead and the fantastic Spaced.

Surely we have all worked with card forces before: Linguistic entrapment into choosing the 10 of diamonds being the famous example. When working with an insti-stooge who is actually in somnabulism, the Pegg effect is achievable. Probably.

Not that I'd try it in my practise-airport.
Nick23
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I think Simon kinda ruined the credibility of the whole effect by saying that "he would have played along anyway", I'm surprised they didn't EDIT that bit out Smile

I don't mind it so much when they edit out part of the effect to hide the method, but when the editing BECOMES the method, that's where I have a problem.

Just one more thing to add. I guess part of the reason I don't like it is the same reason why some card magicians don't like using gimmicks. They are "purists". I guess that makes me a purist mentalist then
Nothing I do can't be done by a 10-year-old...with 15 years of practice."
-- Harry Blackstone, Jr.
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