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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Sal Piacente's Expert Card Magic Lecture Notes DVDs vs. Darwin Ortiz's Scams & Fantasies with Cards (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ImpromptuBoy
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Toronto, Canada
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Hi Everyone.
I can't decide which one to purchase. I thought the Sal Piacente DVDs were better.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.

Michael
J Wessmiller
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VA
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I vote Darwin's Scams and Fantasies. Not only because I think Darwin is more talented and has better material, but also because of the ethical issues involving Magic Makers and Sal's using effects without permission. For more information, see Michael Close's review of Sals DVD's in Genii magazine (maybe 4 months ago?).
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emeprod
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Just don't believe everything you read in Mr. Close's reviews. Evidently, he mentions that Sal exposed a method of Steve Forte's without Steve's permission. Steve will be the first to tell you that Sal is one of his closest friends and that he has no problem with Sal teaching the methods or effects that are on the DVD.

This is obviously not a statement as to which DVD series is more enjoyable since I don't have all of Darwin's Scams and Fantasies DVDs. However, I don't see how you could lose getting either of them or both of them.
Paul H
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Hello Michael,

I have these DVD's and love both of them for different reasons. I am relieved to hear that Sal P may not have offended Steve Forte by tipping ideas and releasing material without his permission. In the light of this information, I would recommend starting with Sal Piacente as he has some excellent gambling and memory effects that you can enjoy working through without feeling overwhelmed by the sheer number of creative routines. Darwin Ortiz has acheived another magnum opus with his DVD set which will take at least a decade to work with and do justice to. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Paul H
niva
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Malta (Europe)
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Sal's other DVDs about the Three Card Monte and the Three Shell Game are also great. And they also revolve around gambling.
Yours,

Ivan
in flames
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I have both set and personally, I like Sal's DVDs better. Darwin is definately one of the best and so is Sal. I use more of the stuff Sal teaches. BTW Sal credits Mr.Forte many times throughout the dvds.

I hate Magicfakers as much as most of you do but I have to admit, 3 of some of my favorite dvds are produced by them.
1. Sal Piacente's Expert Card Magic Lecture Notes
2. Simon Lovell: The Methods Behind the Madness
3. Cutting Edge Cards and Coins with Jason Dean and John Born

Does anyone know if Sal is releasing a new dvd anytime soon?
ImpromptuBoy
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Toronto, Canada
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Quote:
On 2005-04-29 20:27, in flames wrote:
Does anyone know if Sal is releasing a new dvd anytime soon?

I know he'll be releasing new DVDs in the future. Not sure when though.
niva
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Yeah I heard that too.
Yours,

Ivan
in flames
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I look forward to them. I'm curious to know if it will be a gambling DVD? I guess we will have to wait and see?
Thanks guys
wzrduvahhs
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As far as I'm concerned, Sal is the real deal. Can't speak for the Darwin DVD's but I don't believe Mr. Ortiz has ever had any real gaming experience. Sal has worked almost every station from the floor to the "eye in the sky". What REAL casino experience does Mr. Ortiz have? By the way, look for a new DVD real soon from Sal.
Kjellstrom
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Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe
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Info about Ortiz:
http://www.darwinortiz.com/protection-services.php
I have seen Darwin Ortiz live in England and he is not good:
he is extremely great with Cards.

Go to Amazon.Com and search for Darwin Ortiz, several books on gambling shows up.
If he can write this kind of stuff he should probably have some knowledge about gambling.
Philip Chau
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Macau
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Hi,

I actually have all 4 of Sal Piacente's DVD (shell, monte & lecture) and 3 of Scams & Fantasies.
My personal preference would be Sal's DVDs. I guess I like his style more.
Darwin is a really good teacher too.

Actually, I always like to go for the basics first.
So I would say if I'm interested in gambling stuff, I find Richard Turner's The Cheat very informative in a lot of basic moves, then I'll go for Expert Card Magic, then Scams & Fantasies.

Philip
mook
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I met Sal several times and must say that he is one of the most knowledgable person I have ever met. Out of all the casino consultants on Game protection (including Darwin), Sal is the only one that actually worked in all positions on the casino floor (dealer thru pitboss) as well as survaillance. He has over 20 years experience in the business and has worked on both sides of the table, (this does not include Forte because he is retired).
Darwin gets a lot of business but not much repeat ones from the casinos. I have seen both lecture at the world gaming conference in Vegas and learned a lot more from Sal in the first 10 minutes of his seminar. Darwin opened up with a card trick and talked about scarne.
Kjellstrom
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See Darwin live:
http://www.thecuckoosnest.com/page5.html

Date: Monday, June 13th. 2005
Location: Holiday Inn Express
South 10th Street
South Side, Pittsburgh
Time: 7:30 p.m
CardStudent4Life
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I'm selling my copy of the first dvd of Sal piacente's Expert Card Magic Lecture notes. PM me if you are interested
Martino
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Darwin needs to read his own books imho.
"There's a difference between not knowing how something is done and knowing it can't be done!" - Simon Aronson
Lukenp
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I went to the darwin's lecture in pittsburgh. It was incredible. My opinion about sal is that he is not nearly as good a card magician as darwin is. Darwin is more well known. More experienced and more knowledgable. I think and I think a lot of other people as well think magic makers makes and produces some of the worst videos. THere teaching is very bad. JUST MY OPINION.
"Be natural"

-Dai Vernon
Nik_Mikas
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
On 2005-04-29 12:13, emeprod wrote:
Just don't believe everything you read in Mr. Close's reviews. Evidently, he mentions that Sal exposed a method of Steve Forte's without Steve's permission. Steve will be the first to tell you that Sal is one of his closest friends and that he has no problem with Sal teaching the methods or effects that are on the DVD.


Actually, I believe Steve said something along the lines of, "Do you want me to stop what I'm doing and start making card tricks so you can keep putting out DVDS?" to Sal. He was pretty ****ed. And more than one trick on those DVD's are Forte's, they just aren't credited.
Mago Gregorio
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Paris, France
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What about the level required to produce D Ortiz effects in Scams & Fantasies ? Do you need to be expert in Faro shuffle or an intermediate level is sufficient to learn the tricks ?
Smile Smile Smile
LeConte
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Bay area
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The Ortiz material is geared for the intermediate through expert(learn a stack, perfect pinky counts, perfect faros, perfect doubles and the list goes on and on). Sal's dvd is within the grasp of someone with more a much more limited sleight arsenal as even the Gilbreath principle is explored. Both are recommended, however, regardless of skill level. If you can afford both then get them and start learning.
Drive Carefully
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Sal Piacente's Expert Card Magic Lecture Notes DVDs vs. Darwin Ortiz's Scams & Fantasies with Cards (0 Likes)
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