LOL...I was just kidding Jonathan!

Greetings, Magi:

I take a rather dour view on human nature, and thus tend towards the Promethean end of the spectrum on this question: Any good thing (like fire) acquired by our species will inevitably be used for something bad (arson).

Evidently, I'm not alone in this rather bleak perception -- if one goes to our stories (from the aforementioned Prometheus, to Golem, to Gollum, to Disney [N.B.: Sorcerer's Apprentice segment of Fantasia], The Twilight Zone, The Monkey's Paw or The X Files), one finds similar sentiments expressed: The greater the power and the fewer human hands in which it's held (even with good or benign intentions), the greater the corruption. Not potentially, but necessarily.

Given that our history confirms our fables, I doubt I'd use real Magic to conjure up some wisdom for myself, and thenceforth use my powers well and rightly, avenging wrongs and ending hunger and that sort of thing. Rather, I imagine the cornfield would simply become very crowded on my watch...

Leland

ROFLMAO !!! The thread was deep and profound, then there was a hairpin curve ..

It's a thread with mulitple personality disorder !

To say any power man creates will be used for evil - is true, but only half true.

Every tool man creates is used for both good and evil.
Take the internet for instance - a new power that has recently unfolded on the world. It is used to communicate, to exchange dirty picutres, people find their spouses, and some try to seduce children. Spies use it to transmit information, and sages teach their flocks. People come together to play, and people send flaming emails and post websites that spread hate.

The power, like fire, is neither good nor bad. All tools created will be used to express the human experience. The human expereince is full of duality - hence the common ideas of white and black magic. Each disipline attracting the souls that resonate accordingly.

Ahh humanity, yet another expression of the eternal Yin Yang.


Walk In Peace,

Sensei Strange

Yeah, seems fire was a bad idea. Look what happened to the guy who gave fire to mankind. Can you imagine the fate of one who would give magic to mankind?

It seems there's always side effects and or some danger to mankind's creations.
The balance of good and bad, light and dark .....

I I had genuine magic (like being able to actually cast D&D type things), I really don't know. What a responsibility. The temptation to use such power...

:bat:

Azrael

I'll tell you what I wouldn't do: work for a living.
:genielamp:

Steve

Who needs magic for that? in my hood we call it "welfare" hahahahaahaaaa...


there goes the thread from here....sorry Mystician, we tried...lol

In the Zen temple my teacher often said " A day without work is a day without food" This is a strict rule in the monstaries. Work and practice is an essential part of Zen magic. How pure can the magic of someone lost in the sin of sloth be?

I met many monks when I lived in Japan. After some probing many of them I met admitted that it was fairly common that a monk developed "powers" Usually it fire starting, or telepathic powers. The Zen masters strongly discouraged the development of these abilities because they were a distraction from the goal - Enlightenment. A temptation from true learning, if you will. Oto Sensei said "If you met a Buddha on the path to enlightenment - cut him down."

I will leave that to you to figure out the meaning of on your own path.


Sensei Strange

It means,in short, to free your self from all paths as path; to free yourself from all ways as way...to look at no other than your SELF for you own enlightenment, the greatest of magick...

But again we digress from the implied intent of the thread, which was pointed toward magic in the 'unattatched fairy-tale gift' sense rather than the deep mysticism sense ('Bewitched' rather than 'The Force'). Magic in the mystic sense carries its responsibilities and disciplines.

I think the intent was "what would you do if you could suddenly 'zap' this and 'alakazam' that - no strings attached."

Steve

(...must...resist temptation...to engage in debate about existence of...pyrokinesis...).

Thanks for getting us back on point, Steve. Try as I might, I couldn't think of a single 'power' that didn't quickly degenerate into something egomaniacal. Lead into gold? Great, world monopoly! Power to heal? Ditto. Tissue paper into butterflies? Wonder what the marks would pay to see that?

If, however, I were pressed, and had to answer this question both to the best of my abilities AND to the betterment of those who would be subjected to this new power, then I would wish for some real Magic that could eliminate worry, bring laughter, ease pain, and dissolve trouble of any sort. Magic so powerful that it would gladen the hearts and lighten the burdens of those who watched it..if only for a few sweet moments. What better Magic could exist than this?

Ah, but that wish has been already granted, and not to me alone but to any who inhabit these boards! Will you join me in a collective 'thank you' to the mentors who have granted this wish, and then go to share their gift with others?

Leland

We are not digressing by simpy reminding one that real power can be found within One Self...
his question was "if magic were real...." and we are showing that magic is indeed as Real as the Self...

it all ties in together...let it flow...

No strings? Not even basic responsibility for the resources affected and effected? I wish.

Well, stripped to that context, I believe the first thing I would do would be to provide a certain high profile terrorist to the World Court in chains (No I would not turn him over to the US directly, but I would claim the rather large reward), then I would transport most of the leaders of the middle east to a sealed room and demand they settle all the crap over there. THEN, I would spend said reward and live out a few other fantasies.

'nuff said....

Azrael

Okay, seriously. You want dark, here it is. I would have the following: Invisability, Teleportation and Flight. That way I could rob banks and they would never catch me. Then I could retire. The flight thing is just for fun. Man, I would totally rob banks. ( the previous statment made in accordance with the idea that if real magic existed we would all use it for ill gain, I have no real intention of robbing a bank, all you data miners out there this is all fantasty.)

Dr Midnight,

I am not afraid to change the intent of the thread from 'what if you were a superhero' into something with a bit more substance. Threads always change gears and that is ok.

So Leland, I would love to hear the pyrokinesis debate - or just start another thread if it makes you feel more comfortable.

Mystician - It seems that in your inquiry you are confusing super powers with divine powers and magic. Now admittedly, I may not be responding to your post the way you wish but I hope what I offer will be considered. After that, then I’ll respond to the questions presented.

Super powers of the kind that are described in movies and in some books are justified by the back-story. Superman had x-ray vision, could stop bullets, fly, etc. – but, from my admittedly limited knowledge of the superman character, he was born on a world in which the powers he had were normal, then was sent to earth. If he was human, born on earth to two human parents with these abilities, some may view him as having super powers but more than likely they would see him as being either divine or demonic (people love to attach labels).

With that said, I believe that some people are born with gifts that may be considered paranormal. Some people are gifted in healing, others are able to predict certain things, and so on. I believe these “paranormal” abilities can be developed and used, if it is present within the individual. If the ability is not present, then trying to develop such skills would be parallel to developing a singing voice if you are a mute.

Magic, I believe is considered by most to be the process or ability of causing something to happen through the use of charms, spells or even a twitch of the nose. This “something” is the proverbial flip of the switch that causes “whatever” to happen.
(Perhaps this explains one of the gaps that many performance magicians fail to fill that keeps them confined to the category of tricksters within the minds of their spectators.)

As I see it, magic - real magic –can be broken down into a few forms. However, for the sake of length and pertinence, I’m keeping natural magic out of this discussion. In regards to the other forms, I’ll simply state that it’s the ability to communicate with other realms, whether internally or externally, through meditation, prayer, spell craft and ritual in order to gain clarity or in an effort to cause a certain change or effect to occur. The believer/practitioner of such “magic” does not possess divine power(s) but may request assistance from that energy to bring about a certain result. The result will depend on ones communication skills. This is not all that different than the “flip of the switch”.

In an everyday sense one can think of it in this way - a writer needs to write a book yet is stuck for ideas - what does he/she do? One method a friend of mine uses to force herself to write is as follows: she frees herself of distraction by locking herself in a virtually empty room, sits down at the typewriter (since that is what she likes using), inserts the paper, then waits for inspiration. She admits that this process sometimes takes days and that the result is not always what she wants or likes. It may be interesting to note that she does not consider herself religious or spiritual, yet often describes these writings being done in a “trance-like state”.

In a metaphysical sense, her process could be seen as ritual, allowing her to connect with herself so that inspiration will come and words will flow. Not unlike magic, the desired response is not always guaranteed. With such practices, outcomes can’t be easily measured or traced to the source of origin. In fact, it can’t be proven that the same outcome would not have occurred if nothing out of the ordinary was done. It’s no wonder that magic is often thought of as superstition or a simple matter of coincidence.

Yet, if one seeks to control angels/demons to fulfill personal desires, as some have and attempt to do, and the control was granted, then the price of such activity, I can only imagine, would be great -- after all, if such abilities are given they can just as easily be revoked.

Now, onto your questions…

As stated above, I believe magic is real so, in regards to this I would not do anything differently than what I am currently doing.

But, let’s say, for the sake of argument, that I had divine / super powers - what would I do? Well, it’s been stated time and time again “with great power comes great responsibility”. As to what ability I would choose for myself - that would be difficult to answer as for everything gained something is lost. Even though you wrote “The magic I am speaking of is supernatural, and would supercede cause and effect as we know them” does not mean that cause and effect will be abandoned completely.

No matter what ability I would be granted, if any, I’d like to think that I’d help others in some greater way than I currently am. Of course, one needs to eat and it would be frowned upon to sell ones abilities to those in need. So, again, not much change would occur except for the fact that some free time and sections of my work schedule would need to be sacrificed in order to assist those in need of my services.

Mystician - you wrote “It seems to me that a great many classic "magic tricks", those involving playing cards, coins, ropes, under the light of a truly divine power, are completely, utterly, banal. Trite. Just plain stupid. Why would anyone waste their energy or time on some of that stuff if they really had the power they seem to have ?”

Well, one might say the same thing to a person wanting to develop the skills to become a portrait artist when a camera would give more detail. Today, with the right computer program, one can turn a photograph into something that makes it look like a sketch, oil, or watercolor painting. As odd as it may seem, some people will continue to go above and beyond what they need to do, if for no other reason than for the fact that there is joy in the doing, even if they do so as a hobby.

As to why a person with “truly divine power” would become a performing magician whether using divine or mundane methods - well, I would like to believe that their reasons for performing magic are akin to my own. (When it come to my performance as a magician/bizarrist, I believe it is my goal to not only entertain but give my audiences something deeper to consider, even, at times, teaching something. For me it’s not what “tricks“ I do or the method of accomplishment as much as what my audiences come away with, that is important. As it’s been stated previously, for “magic” to exist within a performance, it must have meaning behind it and that meaning must resonate with the viewer.) To add a religious slant to this, Jesus used parables to teach lessons and give insights about what exists beyond this world. Ptbeast wrote about some of the miracles Jesus had, or is claimed to have had, performed. But what were these “miracles” if not parables in action giving more credibility to his words about his kingdom? His actions drew more attention then his words alone. These feats, stories, and the rumors of such feats have filled and continue to fill people with wonder. To quote babakali’s signature “only when JESUS performed MAGIC did the people believe”

Not unlike what has been previously mentioned by ptbeast and babakali - it’s not ones possession of divine or super powers that can make a difference in the world. It’s one’s acknowledgement and positive development of the abilities that one currently possesses, no matter how mundane they might be and what one decides to do with it/them that can and will make a difference.

Beautiful lesson Moonlit...good to see you here again...

you really deciphered the mystery and meaning of magic...thanx and praises...

Baba