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templemagic Elite user Sunderland, North-East England 420 Posts |
Hi Guys,
I am looking for opinions on Dave Dee's two school shows in a box. Also, do they apply over here in the UK? I realise that there is a different sense of humour and some things that work there wont work here. So is it useful to people in the UK? Cheers, TM |
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Do a search for Dave Dee and you'll find many unfavourable responses.
Never seen his work myself because of all the bad reviews here on the Café. |
Bill Scarlett Veteran user Vermont 366 Posts |
I won't say anything about Dave Dee but I would encourage you to come up with your own unique school show that reflects your strengths, interests and personality.
You can do better than any school show in a box. |
Lyndel Inner circle wrote the theme to the TV show COPS! 1623 Posts |
I agree with Bill. I'm not discouraging you from ordering it just because it's Dave Dee's product, but I discourage any one from it because this concept is not original thinking.
I suggest that you not go the route of "a show in a box" because it was designed by someone else and suits their own likes and personality. Their style may not be your style. Put your own school show together and you'll have more pride in yourself when you are presenting it because you know it'll be all you! Good luck! Lyndel |
Michael_MacDonald 1964 - 2016 Washington 2034 Posts |
Dave has some strong points and some weak points, the fact is this, what is his is not you. trying to fit into someones elses mold wont work mate, you have a good back ground and a strong stage presance you can fit a show to you, taking some of the ideahs and reshaping them will help but do not buy a show in a box use props you have and revasmp them to fit what you need
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Magicusa Elite user 478 Posts |
Bill and Lyndel is right. Put you own show together.
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The Great Smartini Inner circle 2280 Posts |
TM,
I would have to say that 99.9% of shows in a box are pretty much material that can be found elsewhere for much cheaper...there is no such thing as an easy or quick solution to the challenge of presenting a highly professional show...it takes time, effort, creativity, reflection, cash and much much more...this I say as a magician who is still working at improving the professionalism of my routines after some 25 years of experience As an educator with a graduate degree in education I wouldn't appreciate a show in a box because these shows simply have little or no educational value...some people believe that just because they have a silk with the words "just say no" they really believe they have a drug awareness program...NOT!!...so don't be fooled by the high price tag thinking that there is something of real substance because there simply isn't...the new library/school show that I've developed has been over a year in the making...this should give you the kind of work that's involved and I'm a teacher and a long time magician jeff christensen m. ed. aka the great smartini good luck with your plans to perform in a school setting |
Michael238 Inner circle 1192 Posts |
I agree with my man Jeff. I came up with one on my own, and it went over better. When I first started out, I wanted the easy way out, and bought one of Dav Dee boxes. The show and material was nothing I would, or could use.
I just did my first school show. The priciple said the magic was so good, she could have just watched the magic, and not worry about the reading message. Guys like Steve Taylor, Barry Mitchell to name a coiple have tricks that are awesome, as well as proven material you can get started with to mold your show. DenDowhey, I am sorry Den, I just messed your name up, has put enough great responses and idead on this forum for 3 themed shows. Put the time in to research, and make a freind or two here on the forum.You will find people more than willing to help, if the sense you are legite. |
ThePartyMagician Loyal user Bristol, UK 216 Posts |
Hi TM,
To actually answer your question... I have both the Dave Dee School programmes, and I am in the UK. Whether you should think about investing in them depends really upon this question: - Do you want to use the programmes as a 'springboard' for you to get ideas, then develop your own show (as others have said), or do you want a no-brainer show you repeat as is? I invested in the Dave Dee products initially to get ideas. And they gave me that. And I am grateful for Dave for putting them out. Is it the ONLY solution? No! Is it the "BEST" solution? No! Being in the UK, if you use the sales letter as given in the course, you'll upset a lot of people you market to! If you do the show as it is given, without putting your personality into it, it will be an "okay" show, BUT not a brilliant, memorable and outstanding one! If you follow the marketing plan he suggests, it won't get you far in the UK. But the show itself isn't "super-American", so most of the effects in it are useable...IF you change it to fit YOUR personality! The very BEST solution (based on what I have done and gotten results from) is to put your own show together. BUT...if you need an idea of what you're looking to achieve, you might want to have a look at his school programmes. Sometimes, it's nice to see what others have done, and get ideas from that. It's not a magic bullet that will give you instant success. But it might get you a few more metres up the road! Hope that helps some, PM me if you want more details Kind regards Mike p.s. I have also had success in my area taking the Reading programme to libraries, not just schools. It went down well, they LOVED it (after I'd tweaked it around and put my personality into the show). Something you might want to try. Quote:
some people believe that just because they have a silk with the words "just say no" they really believe they have a drug awareness program... Just to ensure everyone is aware...neither of the educational programmes in question involve the above named silk. Not sure who would use something like that... Mike |
kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
Great response PArty magician!!
Ken |
Creative Coach Loyal user Anderson, SC 294 Posts |
After reviewing several of these show-in-a box programs (not just Dave Dee's) sent to me by coaching clients I personally would advise: CREATE YOUR OWN!
I don't know how education markets (elementary schools) are in the UK but if they are anything like the US your program needs to be educationally sound. This means more than the magic words being "Read A Book!" US educators want a great program with STRONG educational content, teachers guides and support material, reading lists...etc. These "extras" give the school some followup to your program and show a depth of knowledge not achieved by "show-in-a-box" A lot of magicians (and other performers) look at schools as "easy money". They don't last long! I been an "educational specialist" fulltime for going on 22 yrs. and I've seen several of the "show-in-a-box" entertainers self destruct in the market. Schools talk and if you are going to do a reading show you better be a reader yourself and have some depth of knowledge on the subject. How do you get this depth of knowledge? By research & reading! Hope this helps, John |
MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
Sammy Smith has asked me to write a column for his Funny Paper mag on educational shows in schools, as this is how I make 100% of my living now.
I will give you these simple thoughts... 1. MOST so called "educational" or "character building" shows, are little more than magic shows in drag. People look for an "excuse" to do the tricks they like, and will make any connection to do so. This is very bad. 2. Think back to the old "Gi Joe" cartoon. They spent 99% of their time shooting, blowing up, and beating the crap out of people, then at the end added a "character message" which was to take the heat off the rest of the show. People were not fooled by this. 3. If you are going to do an "educational" show, make darn sure it is educational. Claiming you do a math show, then doing zig zag to "teach fractions" is a bigger stretch than the girl in the box is doing. I do science shows, I have spent over a THOUSAND dollars to make sure my programs are 100% correct in their information. I have seen many science shows that are dead wrong in how they explain things work. 4. Claiming to teach "character building" then doing things which "put down" assistants like break away stuff, or things on their heads, send a mixed message teachers will pick up on. This is a wonderful field, however, WAY too many people in it are deficating on my dinner table, don't YOU become one of those..... |
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Robert -
Another thought to add to the mix. If you have a wealth of experience, but are looking for some ideas about approaching the educational aspect of shows, something that also might be of benefit to you might be the Magic Success Seminars DVD set, based on the seminars presented by Jim Snack, BJ Hickman, Steve Taylor, and Steve Hart. I don't have it (yet), but have heard great things about it. It is not a show in a box, but rather pointers on how to create your own unique product. http://www.magicsuccessseminars.com/MSS/default.htm (Note - this is not an affiliate link.) - Donald P.S. I agree with Ken!
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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templemagic Elite user Sunderland, North-East England 420 Posts |
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the responses. The Party Magician there is some food for thought but Im curious when you say that his marketing plan would upset some people in the UK. I have used it here for the corporate market and it works fine?? Could you elaborate on your thoughts of it??/ I think Ill write my own show anyway. Cheers, TM |
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Often people will defend the 'show-in-the-box' saying that the provide a good starting point or you can 'make them your own'. I disagree. Whilst you COULD do that, they really encourage people to be lazy. I'd rather read about HOW to write my own school show, with some examples to get me going.
"give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you'll feed him for a lifetime." I also agree 100% with Mark. TOO MANY so called educational shows are very funny, very well themed and very professional but they simple do not educate! Why? Because most magicians simply do not understand education! For example, Barry Mitchel a whole routine about reading where each child represents a jungle animal. They each choose a key from a bag and try and open 'the door to the future (which contain binoculars so they can see the future). The child who is the butterfly can open the door because butterflies used to be bookworms and book worms have the key to the future...HUH!??! Can you imagine a kid going home and saying "gee, I wan't to read so I can have a good future." ? Heck no! By the same token, Barry also has a GREAT routine where he makes things out of garbage such as trumpet and a giant bang gun. He then has a lot of fun. The message is simple: If you reuse stuff you'll have FUN! I always slip in a few statistics to keep the teacher's happy with my educational shows but at the end of the day its all about making the subject interesting and fun so they WANT to learn. |
ThePartyMagician Loyal user Bristol, UK 216 Posts |
Quote:
The Party Magician there is some food for thought but Im curious when you say that his marketing plan would upset some people in the UK. I have used it here for the corporate market and it works fine?? Could you elaborate on your thoughts of it??/ I guess I should have been more specific... What I meant to say was the actual wording of the sales letters will seriously irritate a lot (not all) of the people you send them to. The marketing plan is fine, it's the letters that need altering. Quote:
Often people will defend the 'show-in-the-box' saying that the provide a good starting point or you can 'make them your own'. I disagree. Whilst you COULD do that, they really encourage people to be lazy. I'd rather read about HOW to write my own school show, with some examples to get me going. Nicholas, I agree with you here. My earlier post was intended to convey that the "show-in-a-box" concept can help you to see how to write your own school show. That's how I used it. What other resources could you recommend that show you... Quote: I'd appreciate your recommendations.
HOW to write my own school show, with some examples to get me going. Mike |
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Sorry mike...never seen a really good resource on the topic.
I got all my knowledge from talking to teachers and education professionals. |
MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
I promise I am going to put everything I have learned in over 30 years of this in the Funny Paper.
I will be sending the first series off to Sammy in a few days. Watch for it! Mark Tripp |
ThePartyMagician Loyal user Bristol, UK 216 Posts |
Look forward to it Mark!
:) Mike |
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