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Stephen Long Inner circle 1481 Posts |
Including you, Rick. Including you.
(Gosh, you're very good at suggesting you're right without actually stating it. It must be a gift.)
Hello.
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RickSilmser Special user 869 Posts |
Stephen...no offence, but get 20 years more experience...come back and read this posting over again...you'll finally see what I mean by then. It's not a matter of being right or wrong...why can't you guys get this into your head ?? It's not what I'm saying. There is a difference between a Mentalist and a Mental Magician...thats all I said.
I also believe I said there is no shame in being a Mental Magician, just don't call yourself a Mentalist until you have earned that right. that's it, it can't be disputed. ~Rick~ |
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Spinnato Elite user 428 Posts |
Mentalist or Mental Magic. It's all bull ****. Entertainment is what it's all about! Entertaining the audience is ALL THAT MATTERS. Period!! And Rick, stop being so *** condescending.
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Stephen Long Inner circle 1481 Posts |
No offence taken, Rick.
You should be aware, however, that in discussions like these it's always a matter of being right or wrong. What do you think fuels the dedbate? Further, where is the sense in you telling me how I'm allowed to label myself? What are you going to do about it if I call myself a mentalist when I'm not? No offence, Rick, but come back and read these posts again when you realise that it just doesn't matter how you decide to define and apply labels. Maybe then you'll realise that it's our audiences (and not you) who will be the ones to label us.
Hello.
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
Yes, you did stated what you thought the difference between a mentalist and a mental magician is, but it was a generalized definition.
By the way, I don't have a 9 to 5 job. I'm a professional actor/magician. I make my living as a performer.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Phil Thomas: Re your post from page one...
You're right, but some Mentalists, especially those who want to present what they do as "real" psychic phenomenon, want to distance themselves from Magic and Magician in the audience's minds, for obvious reasons. Some go so far as to deny the association even to themselves, although these same performers use trickery, peruse the magic sites on the internet, attend magic lectures and began their interest in Mentalism through learning Magic. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Josho Special user Albany, New York 758 Posts |
In perusing Richard's website and the description of his act (BTW, he advertises himself as a legitimate psychic), it occurs to me that a person who presents a "billet act" is not at all presenting himself as a psychic or a mindreader.
Rather, he is presenting himself as somebody with the ability to see through paper. --Josh |
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RickSilmser Special user 869 Posts |
Hi Josho...
How well do you know me or my past ? If you knew me or my past you would know why I label myself as a Psychic. I am, so whats the big deal about that ? Do you know my presentation ? which part of it is Psi-Graphico and which part of it is Psychic ability ? If you can answer these questions, then you can frown on me for saying I'm Psychic, until then, whats the problem ? At least I'm a working professional and not one of these wanna-be's who collects all the latest toys and DVD's and does a show every now and then just to try them out. At least I can offer the beginners here good, solid, advice from my years of work as a professional Mentalist. Can you do that ? I don't think so, you are a 9 to 5 man and not a full time professional. BTW, I'm still right about the difference between Mentalist and Mental Magician, I have yet to see anyone explain how the two are the same. So forget about what I do to make money and stick to the subject...or can you ? ~Rick~ |
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Michael Dustman Inner circle Columbus, Ohio 1220 Posts |
All right...for the final time (unless I change my mind the way Ricardo changes his underwear here)............WHO CARES???? Seriously?
The way I see it....this whole discussion this week came about because Rick checked in on the thread "The Glass Box Prediction" and decided he wanted to state his opinion about $75 for a new mental toy. He ruffled some feathers and stated his opinion. Whether it was at my suggestion or not (I don't know) I suggested that we keep that thread as a review of the routine itself and not a discussion about something unrelated. So, a separate thread (this one) is started with a diatribe about the difference between a mentalist and a mental magician in Rick's eyes. I say a diatribe because I saw very little in a back and forth of discussion. If you disagree with the originator of the post, you are either out of touch, a 9 to 5 non professional, a kid or many other condescending things. On this fourth page, (3 and a half too many) I posted a post second from the top. For the record, those are not my thoughts. Those are 2 quotes from 2 people I respect in the field of mentalism discussing the ridiculous idea of trying to discern between a mentalist and mental magician. The first quote is from Max Maven and the second is from Larry Becker from their time here on the board. I posted that because I was in agreement....who cares. The only person who cares apparently are those who study mentalism that must feel magicians are a threat to them. Look, I for one let Rick have his say because he was entitled to his opinion. That is the beauty of this open forum. Where I finally lost it, was when he became more condescending and refers to items that magicians use as "toys." He doesn't need props...fine...no problem. But for those of us that peform magic with props, don't disrespect us by trying to belittle what we use on stage. I will freely admit, I have spent almost $2000 on "toys" alone in 2005. Does that make me less of a performer Rick? I again full heartedly believe that the most important thing is how entertained the audience is and they don't give two ***** on how you do it. With an envelope or with a box....if they applaud, are mystified, and entertained, both you and I have done our job. Like Rick's...mine is just one opinion. (However, I am not forcing my opinion on everyone). I didn't really feel my opinions were worth all that much until some well respected names in magic told me on this board that mine do offer helpful advice. So while I enjoy this board for "magicians helping magicians" and will do my part of offering my input of 14 years as a professional performer, I will add the caveat that at the end of the day....I could care less what other magicians think of my act or how I do it. I only care about what my audience thinks. So...this thread can continue, and I am sure it will, but again, I ask...why? Rick wanted to state his views of the differences. He freely admits that he did it to strike a nerve and fan some flames. But it's ridiculous. And when he someone with a legitimate disagreement makes a legitimate point...they are written off as too inexperienced or too young or not Rick. I will admit, that he succeeded in pushing my buttons. And I am doing this just to get it off my chest. Not just because I'm right and Rick is wrong, although I am and he is, but because I don't see at the end of the day what the point of this arguement is. Since you find it funny to talk about what other magicians do for their day job Rick, because it apparently it makes you feel more superior...I for one wish you the best of luck in sticking with your day job. I can think of noone else better prepared for a career as a talk radio host. They being famous for running with their opinions, stoking the passionate flames of others beliefs, allowing them to call in and disagree, and then cut them off or hang up so that you can belittle them. Sounds about right............. |
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salsa_dancer Inner circle 1935 Posts |
All branches of this art of 'magic' use subterfuge to create the effect. Case closed.
Unless of course you have real powers. |
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RickSilmser Special user 869 Posts |
Thank you Michael...that was well thought out and well said.
This mole hill has been turned into a mountain and it's just silly. I got a little testy, but only after personal shots were taken...for that I am truly sorry. Correction though, Michael, I do use props...but only the bare minimum and I don't resort to do-dingle, gimmicky, props, especially when I can accomplish the same effect with a slight. I do, however, use a Baker slate now and then. OMG ! What did I just admit ??? LOL! Seriously, if I got out of hand with my purest attitude, I do apologize to everyone. ~Rick~ |
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Michael Dustman Inner circle Columbus, Ohio 1220 Posts |
Truce?????
Well Said!!! |
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Phil Thomas Inner circle Newark, Ohio 1117 Posts |
What's wrong with collecting the toys, books, and dvds? Isn't that how we learn? And a lot of people have to work a real job in order to pay for that stuff as we all don't have the luxury of performing full time. I know I don't have that luxury and I have to go out and bust my rump for a pittance of a paycheck. When I do get the chance to do my little "shows with my new toys", I entertain the he** out of my audiences and I am well paid for it. Maybe someday I'll be able to leave the rat race behind and persue this as a carreer, but as of now it is out of the question as there are bills that need payed and mouths that need fed. So let's not try to be so critical of those "collectors" and "part-time performers". Some people have it a little rougher than others. But when all is said and done, if I see but only one smile on one face after I have finished my little "show", I know I have done my job and I did it well.
:cheers: Phil
"If we lose the sense of the mysterious, life is no more than a snuffed out candle."
Albert Einstein |
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Josho Special user Albany, New York 758 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-15 13:15, RickSilmser wrote: Rick, Did I strike I nerve? Look at my post. I didn't say anything postive or negative in regard to one passing oneself off as a psychic. Everyone may draw their own conclusions. As everyone says, don't run when nobody's chasing you. --Josh |
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scottasf Regular user san leandro, ca 157 Posts |
Hello eveyone who is involved in this banter of who is better than the other.
It really DOES NOT MATTER as long as the AUDIENCE is ENTERTAINED by your performance. The preceeding arguements could have only taken place here between entertainers. The audience (the folks who really matter) would never debate this subject. So, if you are a muscle reader, a metal bender, a billet reader, or depend upon a Dr. Jaks Supersonic to entertain your audience, BE AN ENTERTAINER FIRST and leave your audience with that sense of wonder that they come to see this form of entertainment in the first place. Magically thine, Scott
2008/2009 President Oakland Magic Circle
"Life would be so wonderful if we only knew what to do with it." - Greta Garbo |
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Alewishus Inner circle parts unknown 1226 Posts |
I know this will have little or nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I've just returned home to find that Stephen Long has been asked to come back and read these posts in 20 years, while I only need 10 to 15 years wait time, so I'm kinda feeling good about myself.
Sorry Stephen. Rick, the Canadian legal system could use a guy like you! That is meant as a compliment, just to be clear. As an aside, it appears that there were found along with the Dead Sea Scrolls a number of sea porifera carved into the shape of a small coneys. Small enough to fit them all into one hand. Could it be? A.
Sack subs, ok Ross?
We miss you asper. |
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Stephen Long Inner circle 1481 Posts |
Yes, you'll understand long before I will. I envy you.
Hello.
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Alewishus Inner circle parts unknown 1226 Posts |
I have a hunch that even in a few hours from now or already, neither of us cares.
Forgetfulness can be a gift! A.
Sack subs, ok Ross?
We miss you asper. |
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teejay Inner circle Liverpool, UK 1831 Posts |
Performers can call themselves whatever they like
The spectator makes the final decision TJ :) |
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Roki Special user London 749 Posts |
Hey guys . I live in London . I bumped into Andy Nyman on Tuesday in Covent garden and Christopher lee { Saruman the white wizard ] in kings road tonight . What could it mean ? No joke .
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