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Andrew Richmond
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Awards from Magical Societies are very often quite political.. The true judges of impact on the public are the public themselves. If they don't remember you and you are pretty much a TV magician then you didn't achieve greatness.

Houdini was a prime example of this and I doubt he'll ever be touched no matter how often Angel stands by his grave.

Criss Angel is a good magician with an unusual style but he hasn't reached the public as Blaine did or has. And in turn Blaine hasn't defined his longevity the way Houdini did. We live in a different culture where heros of today are barely remembered tomorrow.

In other fields this is equally true, Orlando Bloom will not be the next James Dean, nor will Robbie Williams be the next Sinatra.

Fame is easy to achieve in this day and age which has diminished celebrity status. Greatness however is harder to achieve than ever before.

Criss Angel is not by any means the best magician period, his has talent to an extent and a good image but so has the Back Street Boys.

A good magician takes the simple and makes it marvelous, not taking the simple throwing in a few edits and strict camera angles to make it look marvelous. There is a world of difference between making something marvelous and making something look marvelous.

No mentalist will be able to touch Geller...
He truly made you believe it just might be possible and if that is a possiblity their worlds are not quite what they thought they would be.

Awards and acholades mean very little to the public, just ask them after they have seen a competition winner perform for them.

Also in the UK if you get your butt on TV 99% of the time The Magic Circle will offer you MIMC Member of the Inner Magic Circle this is not because you are better than the guy who does corporate but you certainly have better kudos than he does as your on the television.

In the US Criss Angel is currently the only magic face on television with consistency so of course the magic castle guys are going to pat him on the back and tell him how lovely he is.. It's like a friend calling you after twenty years because you won the lottery and he just wants to remind you just what great friends you are.

The reason Blaine didn't get any of that is because he seperated himself from magicians & magical soceities.

That said I would rather have Criss and Blaine on anyday when compared to that %&*$ valentino who so kindly did his exposures because of his love of magic and moving it forwards..

Question:
If he wanted to move it forwards why the hell didn't he do a special with brand new effects??

Answer: Because he has about as much creativity as a plank.

A.R.
"Take a card any card!"
"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
unilogo
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I just read the preview to the halloween special in the about website and let see...

Needles thru stomach(ok....)
String thru eye(cool....)
Razor blades(again pretty cool...)
Saw in half without box or anything(PRETTY SiCk!)
Seeing photos of himself and doing a transportation from LA to NY(WTF!!!!ImPoSSiBLE!!!!!?)

He will also be taking "Request"....

Wow, Angel if the effects are half as good as they sound *sawing half* and *transportation* the team really outdid themselves on special fx!!!! I auctually mean that in a good way right now.

It better not be some dumb camera edit or just going to a hollywood set really fast..haha.(NY transportation.)I want to see him "blurr" in the middle of a huge crowd and ending in ny!

The sawing in half also better not be as shown in his stage show. That would take away ALOT of the hard hitting impact. Why would you use a big elaborate prop? Just get an audience member and give him a saw and let him/her saw you!....he...that would be killer. But I know it won't be like that.

Guess we will have to wait and see huh....

I think it sounds cool for once. Angel can finally scare people and act all supernatural with no motive for once. It's halloween!

ps. I like the way mr. Andrew thinks. Smile I agree 100%
Andrew Richmond
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I am sure it will be wonderful to watch and indeed cool in some way.
But I have seen the best sawing in half in Aliens which was a wonderful special effect, and if we want to go even further what about the wonderful effect at the beginning of Resident Evil where the guy gets lazered into about 20 pieces.

Criss is I'm sure a wonderful guy both on stage and off I just think ethics that made our art pure have fallen by the way side. We used to be in a position to say "You may have seen this kind of thing in a hollywood movie but this is real, right now with no camera tricks edits or special effects." that is what amazed people whether we read their minds, impaled ourselves, vanished, appeared or levitated.

Now unfortunately we are being tarred with TV magic, things we and the star couldn't possibly do live, we have taken a backwards step infact we are the same as the hollywood movies and they have bigger budgets and do it better than any magician could.

What will be next? Angel raises the Titanic along with Jack and Rose?

The Magic Castle are welcome to give Criss an award but surely if we have ethics his title should be Media Star Of The Year as apposed to Magician of The Year, there are hundreds and thousands of brilliant magicians who do what they do for the love of the art, by really pushing what has been done before, they are the ones who really do magic for real people day in day out, you also have the guys who do charity work with their performances to bring a little sunshine to those less fortunate, I wouldn't complain for a second if one of those guys got Magician Of The Year.

Criss is now a tv magician and unfortunately his stage show which was very good can never live up to what he has done on television. Does that promote magic? I don't think so TV magic is not real, there is skill to executing an illusion or performing inches from someone live, in TV world you cut out the rubbish and look for the best reaction.

Blaine used an edit for his levitation but at least we can say he didn't resort to it for every other effect, he did 'real' magic sometimes not that well in our minds but it was strong enough for the public to love it. Criss doesn't have that ability he is excellent with his 'Cut that bit sleight.' and his 'Fake that bit' magicians fool themsleves more than others, this does not promote magic at all. If a lay person says it must be a camera trick well in Angels case that can often be true and the lay person thinks "Right okay camera trick... next!"

Does that make Criss the Magician of the year? mmmmm

I could hire an actor to do what Criss does, speak slowly, look weird, walk here, wave your hands there. The only difference would be the actor would do it with more conviction.
Then The Magic Castle would be giving him The Magician Of The Year Award.

Copperfield (love him or hate him and I'm in between) earnt his dues, so much of his shows were live segments filmed at Cearsars, of course we know he used the ocassional edit but primarily it was hard earnt talent and years of slogging it out with live shows across the world for millions of people. That deserves Magician Of The Year. Doug Henning is the same, one if not more of his specials went out live, inriticate illusions, dialogue and rapport for an hour live across the nation.. That deserves merit.

Dressig up in clown make up and doing tricks badly which are edited with the odd special effect thrown in does not.

Criss has a good stage show (a little panto in parts where it tries to be dark) but it wasn't in the same league as S&R, Copperfield or Burton in their prime.

For the record Copperfields latest show is a terrible let down.

Anyone can be an amazing TV Magician and unfortunately that's all Criss Angle will be unless he changes his ethics and learns how to do it real time for real people.

The public are not as gullable as we would hope they are.

In 15 years people will say "Christopher who?" unlike David Copperfield, Blaine and the legend Houdini..

Don't get me wrong all of the names I've mentioned have their flaws (Don't we all) but in Angels case he has far more.

I am not an anti TV magician protester, I love magic.

Blaine is far from the best but I can't knock him in terms of his appeal to the public he achieved a status for himself and is a name people know. Angel has not got that, he hides behind make up and a panto voice, the public do not relate to that.
In maximum enteratinment the author mentions that Max Maven hasn't achieved the same public status as Kreskin this is not due to any other reason other than the fact that the public cannot warm to someone who is not real.

Blaine as boring or dull as he maybe is real, that is him and the public have excepted him as this starnge guy who talks slowly, Angel is not real in any sense it is all so put on, overdone dramatics.

Blaines biggest hiccup was sitting in a box for 44 days boring as hell, if however he did it to raise money for the poor nd the starving across the world it would have been a success. The public over here constantly said "I'd sit in a box for the amount of money he must be earning."
Thus it was not special in any way. If it was for no personal gain but to help others they wouldn't have said that so easily.

A.R.
"Take a card any card!"
"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
a-spirit
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Did anyone nominate Harry Potter for the magician of the year award? He did some pretty amazing “magic” in his last movie. Come to think of it that Obi Wan guy did some pretty amazing things in Star Wars also. Moving object with his mind and stuff. Wow. And what about Yoda?

Just in case someone can’t tell, yes I’m joking here.

I think Chris has far more talent and does not need to be using camera tricks and edits. And I wish he would stop. I really like his stage act. And I don't understand all the other pros saying it's fine because it’s getting magic attention. When it seemed like a few years ago magicians were scorned by the professionals for using the camera to do the magic. Now the magic magazines all talk like it’s the best thing that has ever happened to magic.

Then again I’m working on an illusion where a tornado would pick up a house in Kansas with a girl and a dog in it and fly it across the country and land on top of me on a beach in California. Then a whale would swim up and beach its self, open it’s mouth and I would walk out unharmed. I’ll be pitching it to the networks as soon as I can get Skywalker Ranch to put together the promo for me.
Magicbarry
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I agree with the part about him being a talented magician who shouldn't rely on camera effects, editing, etc. And in fact, I think almost ALL of the magicians "defending" Angel would agree as well.

A point many have made, though, is that Angel DOESN'T rely on camera effects, edits, etc. NEARLY as much as some are claiming. In fact, he doesn't use these techniques very often at all. In many cases, people are claiming he does because they can't see any other way for the effect to be done. That's a sure sign that Angel has fooled them -- beautifully.

I'm not saying that NONE of the effects relied on camera trickery. I AM saying that very few did. However, I agree that I would like to see him cut out the trickery -- if it's used -- altogether.

I'm all for seeing his stage show broadcast. From clips I've seen on one of Criss's previous specials, some of it looks impressive, even if I loathe the type of performance it is. (Personal preference, not a judgment of him as a magician.) Not terribly impressed with his Metamorphosis, which I thought was a far less impressive version of the illusion. But then ... I'm a magician, not your average spectator.

Posted: Nov 3, 2005 2:15pm
I notice people have been very quiet about the garbage can trick, shown last night without edits, and without camera switches. This is one of the effects some claimed were made possible only by edits. Those claims don't appear to have a leg to stand on anymore.

Any comments now?
Randwill
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I haven't seen it yet. For those that have, is it your consensus that it is not a trick but a true demonstration of supernatural powers?

Look, I should probably wait to see it, but either there's a tunnel or there's a double or he can de-materialize from one point and re-materialize in another. Do they take the bag out of the trash can and show that he's even GONE in that one continuous camera shot?
Magicbarry
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Quote:
I haven't seen it yet. For those that have, is it your consensus that it is not a trick but a true demonstration of supernatural powers?
Nope. It's just a good illusion that relies on neither supernatural powers nor camery trickery.

Quote:
Look, I should probably wait to see it, but either there's a tunnel or there's a double or he can de-materialize from one point and re-materialize in another.
Of course, there is another possible explanation, if you examine the way things are laid out when the can is lowered. I don't know if it's a valid explanation at all -- I'd need a wider shot. But maybe there's a reason why they didn't provide a wider shot.
Quote:
Do they take the bag out of the trash can and show that he's even GONE in that one continuous camera shot?
They show TWO continuous camera shots, from different angles. When the main camera pans up to show Criss on the roof, the other camera stays long enough to show the can being turned over. The garbage bag appears empty, and puffs out. It's possible that Criss's identical twin brother, kept secret all these years, is actually between the bag and the can. I don't know.

If you're looking for someone to explain how it was done ... well, I can only speculate, and even then I wouldn't have all the answers. But what the continuous shot established was that no camera effects / edits were involved in creating the illusion, and that it was a legitimate illusion. A *** good one, too. Any illusion that seems impossible to pull off -- even to a magician -- is a *** good illusion.
Randwill
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Thinking a little further back, when I watched the original Criss Angel Mindfreak show (the older one taped in N.Y.), I remember thinking it was done with the help of a specially prepared garbage can. For that footage, carefully positioned actors aided the maneuver.

I would agree that it's a good illusion, but only a good TV illusion. People watching the taping would see a scurrying magician unless enough actors are employed as "random passer-bys" to push real spectators out of the line of vision.
cardone
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I like your actor analogy Andrew Richmond..... Lets get an actor and about 10 magic consultants and make him a magician...hey this would be a great reality show........ Lets give Gandalf ..the magician of the year award...... he is an actor playing the part of a magician.......
Alym Amlani
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What did you guys think of the book test in the psychic book store...

All I can say is "wow".
Logic Defied
MopKrayz
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Quote:
On 2005-10-27 04:31, Andrew Richmond wrote:
I could hire an actor to do what Criss does, speak slowly, look weird, walk here, wave your hands there. The only difference would be the actor would do it with more conviction.
Then The Magic Castle would be giving him The Magician Of The Year Award.


Have you ever tried to coach actors to do simple magic tricks?
If you have, then you know what a hassle they are in general.
I don't think any actor would be able to make the same impact as Angel. If anyone could, A&E would have hired an actor, a couple of magic consultants and do MindFreak on their own, not have to shell out money and binding contracts with Criss Angel.

Thing is Angel is there on TV, because he has something others don't! Just accept that!
cardone
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I have been a Magical director on many productions..and I must say I have taught people to do some amazing things.... no spit fan work but stuff that needs showmanship and confidence.
I believe you can be a great magician with a lot of showmanship..... and not a lot of slight of hand skill .....but not a great magician with a lot of skill and no showmanship....... Most people attracted to magic as a hobby are introverted types ...the wrong type for show biz.......
Magicbarry
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Quote:
Thinking a little further back, when I watched the original Criss Angel Mindfreak show (the older one taped in N.Y.), I remember thinking it was done with the help of a specially prepared garbage can. For that footage, carefully positioned actors aided the maneuver.
You may have thought that, but you posted this:

Quote:
Quote:
The butterfly in napkin, the ring in the ice cube, the garbage can-to-roof were all presented with edits. He didn't really perform the tricks.



Quote:
I would agree that it's a good illusion, but only a good TV illusion.
Good thing it was done for television, then. There’s no “only” here. It was an illusion done for television – therefore, it was good.
Quote:
People watching the taping would see a scurrying magician unless enough actors are employed as "random passer-bys" to push real spectators out of the line of vision.
If that’s how it was done, of course. I suspect it was, too – but you never know. Angel and his team are better magicians than we are.
Randwill
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What I mean is, if there are edits during the performance that cut out the work it took to achieve the effect, then as far as I'm concerned no magic was performed. It certainly isn't necessary for the performer to do any magic. The TV presentation should show it to you the way it would have looked if you had been there when it happened. No exceptions or "but it took too long, we had to cut it" excuses. If it took too long, learn to do it quicker before tape rolls.

If you see a video of a guy in front of a building and then it cuts and he is on top of the building, is there any reason to believe he flapped his arms and flew up there?
Stanyon
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Is it just me or, judging by the audience in the Magic Castle during the Halloween show, has the Castle done away with the dress code? Sure looked like there were a lot of "Angelphiles".

FWIW

Cheers! Smile
Stanyon

aka Steve Taylor

"Every move a move!"

"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
Magicbarry
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Quote:
The butterfly in napkin, the ring in the ice cube, the garbage can-to-roof were all presented with edits. He didn't really perform the tricks.
Well, number 2 in this list was shown without edits on last night's "best of". So you can strike a second one off the list of effects he "didn't really perform".
JoeJoe
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The garbage can was also rebroadcast without edits ... time to face up to the fact that Chris Angel is indeed a magician.

JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
Magicbarry
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Yeah, I called the naysayers on that one a couple of weeks ago, the first time the unedited version aired.

I think what people are failing to understand is that Angel is the magician -- not the producer. The TV people make the decision on when to edit an illusion for length. Angel has some input ... but only so much. He's not the boss. The TV people edit to suit their needs, and they don't give a rat's antler if guys on a magic message board are going to say about cuts, edits, etc. We're not the target audience; the actual target audience neither cares nor notices the edits and cuts.

I'm sure Angel would LOVE to present every single effect without edits, using a continuous shot, as he did with these re-airings. The network would never go for it.
Pete Biro
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Stanyon: The shoot for the Angel Halloween special was in the afternoon, the Castle dress code does not kick in until 7 pm nightly.

The timing was set years ago so that folks in the entertainment (and other) biz could stop in on the way home for a drink and visit without coat and tie, but by 7 had to leave or change.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
JoJo Hermann
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I really liked the trick with the taxi... writing on the window and changing it into "cat".
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