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kermitthefrog Regular user France 128 Posts |
Another poster recently discussed a video he was making discussing the tabled faro shuffle. May I ask for a bit of background on this? I can do a perfect faro in my hands with no trouble. What exactly is a "tabled" faro? Which parts of it are done on the table? What degree of perfection can mortals expect to reach with it?
Thanks! |
Paul Sherman Inner circle Arlington, VA 1511 Posts |
The tabled faro is designed to simulate an ordinary tabled shuffle. The shuffle (and ideally the cut) are made on the table. It's a knacky move. I've worked with it some. The actual weaving of the cards seems no more difficult than an "in the hands" faro. Once the cards begin to weave, much as in a regular faro, they just sort of zip together. The biggest problems I have are 1) making a tabled cut at 26 and 2) getting the weave to begin in the right place (i.e. with the bottom cards of each packet).
There are a couple different methods described in Expert Card Technique. Demonstrations of the move can be found on Steve Forte and Darwin Ortiz's gambling protection videos. I also believe that Martin Nash (who is regarded as a master of the tabled faro) put out some work on it in a video called "Infinite and Beyond" (the "infinite" refered to his infinite control, the "beyond" to his tabled faro work). Hope this helps. Paul Sherman
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase
some youtube videos |
kermitthefrog Regular user France 128 Posts |
Thanks. So now I'm imagining that the user has the deck on the table, performs a perfect cut, and weaves the cards perfectly. I can imagine this being done well; I can do it reasonably well myself. But of course there is a big difference, in card work, between "well" and "perfect", not to mention "reliably perfect." Can Martin Nash (or others) do *perfect* tabled faro shuffles that are reliable enough to be the basis of effects? (i.e., eight in a row that absolutely, positively keep the cards in their original order?) It would seem so easy to miss the perfect cut by one when you are looking down at an angle at the tabled cards. Well, I suppose that anything is possible with enough hours of practice. Tips would be welcome, however!
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Paul Sherman Inner circle Arlington, VA 1511 Posts |
Allan Ackerman, Ed Marlo, and Martin Nash (and I'm sure others out there) all do (or did in Marlo's case) 8 perfect table faros in under a minute. I've seen a number of people use table faros in tricks, including Andrew Wimhurst and Ricky Jay. The trick I saw Ricky Jay use a tabled faro in was part of his "Ricky Jay and his 52 Assistants" show, so he had to be able to hit the faro reliably. The move can most definately be performed reliably.
Just not by me Paul Sherman
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase
some youtube videos |
CharlieC Elite user 488 Posts |
Hi kermit,
To answer your question, yes some magicians can do it eight times in a row perfectly. Marlo does a nice demonstration of this on the Ed Marlo Confidential tape. As for tips, keep practicing. The hardest part is cutting to 26 consistently, since you are probably used to cutting 26 in the hands (to do a normal faro). It's a different knack cutting a tabled deck. Keep practicing and don't give up!
"Whenever he gets in a fix he reaches into his bag of tricks.
Felix the cat, the wonderful, wonderful cat..." |
DaveM Special user Germany 788 Posts |
Its very difficult to get a cut at 26 when the deck is on the table. At least with in-hands shuffling you can catch a "peek" at a key card. Like mentioned above, its a knack and will come with time.
I believe its volume four of A-1 Multimedia's Nash series that has some good tips on the tabled faro. Martin makes it look like child's play. He shows three different ways to do it. Just find what works for you. Martin advises against "wacking" the packets prior to the weave on the video, but I find that greatly helps my tabled-faros. Dave |
kermitthefrog Regular user France 128 Posts |
1. Thanks for these helpful replies. Paul Sherman said that Ricky Jay used the tabled faro in his 52 Assistants show. Do you recall where?
2. The problem with a perfect cut on the table, for me, isn't that I can't spot a key card; I don't use key cards anyway. It's that in making a perfect cut I rely on being able to look at the two halves to see if they are the same size. In a tabled faro, is the shuffler peering down and eyeballing the cut, or is the perfection of the cut all felt in the fingers? Seems like it must be the latter if the move is to be used effectively; but then that's where error seems inevitable. (Yes, I'll buy the Nash tape and see.) |
Denis Behr Special user Germany 703 Posts |
I think Ricky Jay used it to set up for Marlo's Estimation Aces (so only a partial faro is required).
Re: "Once the cards begin to weave, much as in a regular faro, they just sort of zip together." One should point out that there are in general two types of table faro: Butt-type faros in which the weave is created in basically the same way than in in-the-hand-faros by pressing/butting/sawing the halfes together and the (generally more difficult)riffle faro shuffles in which the weave is achieved during the actual motion of riffling the cards off the thumb. (Perhaps it is better if somebody explains the differences again since I have my problems in English languages here...) Greetings from Germany, Denis |
metaphyzix Regular user 129 Posts |
Quote:
One should point out that there are in general two types of table faro: Butt-type faros in which the weave is created in basically the same way than in in-the-hand-faros by pressing/butting/sawing the halfes together and the (generally more difficult)riffle faro shuffles in which the weave is achieved during the actual motion of riffling the cards off the thumb. You pretty much said it, Denis, but Ill clear it up a bit for you... Hes saying that the two types of table faros are 1) the process in which you pretty much jam the cards together so they weave (much like an in-the-hands faro) and 2) a faro which looks exactly like a riffle shuffle, because the weaving of the cards actually occurs while riffling (they weave in mid-air). |
MagicSponge Regular user 141 Posts |
Denis,
Very well said. For others who would like to learn more about the tabled faro, I really reccomend that you get both of Ed Marlo's booklets discussing the faro shuffle from his excellent Revolutionary Card Technique series. Getting the tabled faro does require lots of practice, but once it is accomplished its not the most difficult thing. I find butt-faro's much more easier as well, as it kinda simulates an in the hands weave. Doing the riffle is a bit tougher, but it still can be done. There are several guys who do this, Allan Ackerman, Steve Forte, Martin Nash, etc. And there were tons of guys who did it when they were aroung (Jennings, Marlo, Vernon, etc.) Lee Asher has a very very very nice tabled faro. He does it like its a second nature almost. He does a one handed tabled faro (this can be learned from the encyclopedia of card flourishes, however, in the encyclopedia it is taught as a shuffle, not a faro, but if you can easily do the shuffle, the faro can't be THAT much harder...) And Mr. Asher also has a incredible butt-type faro (it can be seen performed one of Ross Bertrams videos, by Mr. Bertram.) Well, if you are interested in any shufflework, I think it would be worthwhile that you invest your time on the tabled faro. Try it on several surfaces (wood, close up mat, the floor, table, etc...) Lee Asher is able to p rety much do it on any surface. If you are I n school and don't have a social life (like myself) during lunch it is fun to just play around with the faro and casually spread to 'check' that you got the weave perfect....your friends will be impressed (if they are not impressed...find new friends!) Just Joking. Well, go practice now! Sincerely, Doug-The Magic Sponge |
kermitthefrog Regular user France 128 Posts |
[/quote]
You pretty much said it, Denis, but Ill clear it up a bit for you... Hes saying that the two types of table faros are 1) the process in which you pretty much jam the cards together so they weave (much like an in-the-hands faro) and 2) a faro which looks exactly like a riffle shuffle, because the weaving of the cards actually occurs while riffling (they weave in mid-air). [/quote] Whoa -- you mean to say you riffle the cards together, as in the fashion of a riffle shuffle, but they fall together perfectly (one card from each side, top to bottom)? Sounds quite impossible. Jamming the cards together is one thing; they naturally interweave. Riffling 26 cards from each hand into each other is another matter. Are *both* of these available on videos? (Or do I simply misunderstand the description of the second type of tabled faro?) |
DaveM Special user Germany 788 Posts |
The riffle should immediately follow the weave itself, some five/six cards behind. Trying to get them to fall perfectly is too much trouble.
Try and have the deck slightly bowed upwards at the corners as well to help with the uniformity of the weave. And slightly bevelling the packets by "wacking" them should help as well. Bevelling helps me when performing on a softer surface. Dave |
MagicSponge Regular user 141 Posts |
Kermitthefrog,
yes you riffle shuffle the cards to make a perfect weave...just like shuffling the cards, except having each one interweave with eachother. Imagine just doing a tabled riffle shuffle (a riffle shuffle on the table) a tabled faro (riffle type, not butt-type) is quite similar, but the cards do a perfect weave. It can be done. It does require practice. Watch Martin Nash's Infinity and Beyond for a better explanation, however, I would highly suggest the academic road much more, and go with Marlo's Revolutionary Card Technique Series and reead his two manuscripts on the faro shuffle. Its not too hard, but it does take practice. For me the key is being soft and mechanical, but then again, I am sure its different for everyone. While I still make some misses quite occasionally, guys like Lee Asher, Ed Marlo, Larry Jennings, Martin Nash, Darwin Ortiz, Andrew Wimhurst, etc. are proof that it can be done perfectly and consistently. Sincerely, Doug-The Magic Sponge |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I've never seen Martin Nash do anything except weave them all at once at the beginning just like a regular in-the-hands faro and then pretend he's riffling by making the noise but really they are already woven.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
Denis Behr Special user Germany 703 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-10-14 22:23, DaveM wrote: That's what I meant. It is not a regular riffle shuffle (I don't think Asher, Marlo, Nash... do/did it that way; see above comment). The halfs touch before and during the riffle but are not butted together but weave as they are let off the thumb. But they already touch in the first place (which they do not do in a regular riffle shuffle). (For descriptions see Faro Shuffle, Kabbala, Expert Card Technique, Ever so Sleightly, Card Finesse) |
chrisw New user Cambridge, England 17 Posts |
Joseph Schmidt has a fairly do-able one handed table faro that was published in Epilogue. He recommends Vernon's Ultimate Card Secrets as another excellent source.
regards, chris |
Jeff Hinchliffe Loyal user Toronto, ON Canada 280 Posts |
Yes, Denis is again right. The riffled Table Faro is not an actual riffle shuffle. It is the riffle slowly following behind the weave, which makes it appear to be a riffle shuffle. If you can get a hold of the Videonics tapes of Martin Nash (I believe some company bought the rights, L&L?) he demonstrates and teaches the tabled faro. His is incredible, looks just like a riffle shuffle. Also, check in the two Ross Betram books, he might have something. His table faros were incredible, as are his student David Ben's.
Jeff
Pick a card, any card...
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Denis Behr Special user Germany 703 Posts |
A tabled Faro Riffle Shuffle might look something like this clip I recently made: http://www.zahlenschelme.de/denis/
But it might look better with more practice... I cannot do it reliable enough for performances but I keep working. (It's fun, too!) Denis |
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