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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Derren Brown-The Gathering (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Neil
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Pro mentalists use some pre-show work - probably most of the famous ones. Who cares? That is how some good effects are done. It's not worth worrying about.

The show was excellent. It obviously wasn't quite as jaw dropping as his TV show, and as a magician it was heartening to see that he uses some of the more standard methods to achieve his effects when he cannot edit. But he still does them 20x better than nearly everyone else I've seen.

The guy is very very good.
KN_Magic
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Sure the 'Africa' thing does tip the method (or at least the chronology of the method). However Derren also used (in a TV trailer a while back), "think of a jungle animal"....most people say 'Lion', even though it's a savanah animal.
Just because you ask someone a question doesn't mean they'll give you a correct answer.

It wasn't as slick as his normal TV stuff, but to my mind it's the first stage magic (as opposed to street/warehouse/bar/perspex box/etc) to be presented on UK TV in probably 15-20 years! Hats off to the man.
My candle burns at both ends; it will not last the night; but ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - it gives a lovely light!
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oxygen
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About Gary Kurtz, he had to face a big issue concerning pre-show work on his last live show in Paris, the kind of problem that can ruin your show.

I won't go into details as it is a public forum, but to sum up what happened, one of the volunteers revealed innocently the existence of the pre-show work and did it in a way that suggested to the audience that he gave the informations directly to the staff.
It happened at the end of a Q&A type routine based on P-S. The audience started to whisper and it seems that many went home thinking everything was just done with stooges.
It seems that Gary changed the script of this part of his show to avoid this to happen again.
Roki
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I believe it makes a huge difference if you use stooges,( or pre-prepared "volunteers") actors ,camera work , or even lie to your audience . Mentalists are often on very thin ice , especially on T.V. " Magicians thinking "can make us overly fussy on the cleanness of methods but it can also make us believe anything is acceptable for the effect .
It isn't . People will accept illusion , acting , skill , mystery , trickery as these are all games they have willingly entered into . There is a psychological contract that you enter into with your audience . It is subtle , but when you break it you lose them . Sometimes forever . And you don't know about it because they don't tell you.
Paradise
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Who thought ha ha a centre tear is on the way when the bits of paper were introduced?
Harry H
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I did.Must have been Osterlinds peek instead? Or maybe not actually...Id have to re watch but I don't remember him touching the paper after she wrote.Briliant.
The Gentleman
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Quote:
On 2005-05-31 11:08, Roki wrote:
I believe it makes a huge difference if you use stooges,( or pre-prepared "volunteers") actors ,camera work , or even lie to your audience . Mentalists are often on very thin ice , especially on T.V. " Magicians thinking "can make us overly fussy on the cleanness of methods but it can also make us believe anything is acceptable for the effect .
It isn't . People will accept illusion , acting , skill , mystery , trickery as these are all games they have willingly entered into . There is a psychological contract that you enter into with your audience . It is subtle , but when you break it you lose them . Sometimes forever . And you don't know about it because they don't tell you.


Though the effect is the vital point, obviously, I do agree; this is an age-old debate and that is unlikley to be concluded in this thread, but it is cheating. I know we are all professional charlatans, but it's very nearly the honour-amongst-thieves thing. Their suspension of disbelief is willing to do so much for you, one ought to repay it with realtime methods.
Hypnotic Winter
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Does any one know if it's will be repeated anywhere? I missed it.

H.W
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Harry H
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Yes it's repeated this weekend on E4 in the UK.
Hypnotic Winter
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Excellent, thank's harry.

H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
magic in mind
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I'm sorry to say but despite really admiring derren and objectives creations.i was bored.it was the same as his first tour.albeit he used a telephone book and not an a to z .the thing with the cabbie at the end was very good but the rest, very tired old ideas.sorry derren.
PhatDad
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Quote:
On 2005-05-31 14:00, magic in mind wrote:
I'm sorry to say but despite really admiring derren and objectives creations.i was bored.it was the same as his first tour.albeit he used a telephone book and not an a to z .the thing with the cabbie at the end was very good but the rest, very tired old ideas.sorry derren.


awwww I'm really very sorry for you. Maybe Derren will do a show for just magicians using new and unknown techniques. But until then I think he'll stick with the tried and tested entertaining techniques.
Harry H
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If it's not broke don't fix it! Id rather he'd done Seance on stage from his last tour,but hey cant compalin.
The Gentleman
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I was also bored by it; mainly, I think, because I had seen his live tour the night before, and was expecting something as awe-inspiring.
big dan
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I loved it when Derren got the second lady's name wrong - the one who had to choose between the envelopes - he was shouting her name and she was paying him no attention until he realised his mistake. Just goes to show, even the most amazing minds that have the power to control and manipulate other people, still forget someone's name less than 2 minutes after meeting them!! Just made me laugh.

I thought it was going to be a center tear too!! But alas Derren was just toying with us!!

I enjoyed the show and although I am relatively new to mentalism it was nice to be able to recognise a few classics and also to be blown away by the last effect. It left me swearing at the TV, I thought I had it and then bam!! No freaking way!! Loved it.

laters

dan
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Roki
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Re: the wrong name !!! It just prooves he is not being fed all his info through a brain implanted receiver as some have suggested. Unless of course the hidden controllers were putting him in his place !.
{ Sorry for that , I was abducted recently ]
On a less serious note . I enjoyed the moment when Krishna said that the Tel Number he was thinking of belonged to a girl named Charlie , the same name as the other audience member . Derren paused for at least 1.5 seconds .Was he thinking " how can I get the credit for this? " . What would YOU have done at this point ?
I would have phoned a freind using my sattelite brain implant but that takes 3.2 seconds .
Steve Dela
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I don't think Derren took advantage enough of that moment. He looked just as shocked as anyone when the guy said that.


Steve Dela
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Roki
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I am wondering how one could be ready to take advantage of such things , although he had enough to be getting on with already !! Its a minor curiosity , we're not bashing him ,are we Steve !!
Harry H
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Hands up all those who would have chosen the opposite envelope at the end of the parrot/cheque effect when Derren told her she wouldnt change her mind"as that would show weakness"
Hand the weakness just ruin the trick,lol!! Or maybe that's why she didn't changer her mind?
Steve Dela
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No Roki,
Well I am not any way.

Steve Dela
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