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Profile of mgical
Not sure where to post this, but figured a lot of people would read it here.

Summary first for those who don't want to read it all! Please think before you post, if you have a problem with an order not arriving, or you think something is missing, or a personal battle. Contact the people/dealers involved off list first, read the website for delivery time.

There are a lot of posts appearing 'having problems with.....(insert magician/dealer)'. When you read the post it is seen that the person ordered something yesterday and it hasn't arrived today. So instead of contacting the dealer, and in many cases the originator of the effect, they are posting straight to the list.

Your first point of call should be the dealer, not a public list. Don't let the speed and power of email stop you from using your brain and waiting. These kind of posts can damage a reputation, if you read the site of many of these individuals it lists a delivery time, and often notes that because they are a magic inventor and working pro rather than a shop they may be away for short periods.

And if a trick is broken or you think you have been ripped off contact the dealer first. A case in point was someone potentially damaging the reputation of one dealer by suggesting they were putting out non-johnson products, we then had 'knowledgeable' posts, the original poster then called the dealer (who doesn't read the Café) and got the facts that could have been obtained in the first place. No rip off, it was a genuine johnson.

We have also had on here and the genii forum the case of sylvester the jester vs the magic castle, parts of emails being posted and half of the story. These things should be resolved privately first if at all possible, lets not jump in with two feet without knowing the whole story. Though I am sure in this case the intentions were good the method was not.

The internet is too quick, it encourages people to get trigger happy, if you wrote a real letter (you know the thing with ink and a pen!) would you say half the stuff you say on here on in email. If you phoned the person you disagree with, do you think that maybe you would get a quick response and see both sides?

When all this fails then maybe, and only maybe, should you post publically. The Café should be a positive place to help forward the art of magic, not a place to air your dirty washing (which when you look at it you find it was never dirty in the first place!)

Rant over, suggestion for a solution. Maybe moderators can delete the offending posts that do not help anyone. I will suggest two, one in the money section...'is johson getting cheap' and one in illusions 'having problems with andrew mayne' as examples. I know you guys are kept busy enough as it is, I hope members of the Café will help by reporting threads that fit this category.
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Profile of Chrystal

You've brought up some good points. How often have many of us in the heat of the moment said something and immediately wished we could take it back? The good thing regarding the net unlike a face to face contact is EVERYONE has the edit button located in the top right hand corner. After reading the post they can decide if their post might sound too combative or offending to some and take that portion out...or even Delete their own post. All members have the option of doing that to their OWN post.

The downside of the net is that you don't hear the intonations and what might be said in an amusing or humorous manner but be taken the wrong way. An example would be the simple words, Get outta here! See what I mean...even those three words can be misunderstood when seen in print.

You're absolutely right regarding something unpleasant or uncomplimentary about others - that shouldn't be allowed and it isn't. It's in the rules and regs that sadly most people haven't read throughly but click on okay when they join the Café. The staff have thousands of post they sift through daily to make sure this doesn't happen but as all are volunteers whom give up their free time for the enjoyment of others it's an overwhelming job at times.

EVERYONE has the option of clicking on REPORT THIS POST if they find something extremely offensive or feel another member is being unfairly trashed. Just keep in mind, this isn't meant for someone to report another whom they've had a difference of opinion with, or debate. However, if they feel the other person has genuninely been insultive and attacked them or someone else personally.

I think the Café is a great place to visit and while there is debates that frequently occur and sometimes differences of opinion that's what makes it interesting. Personal insults are a no no and shouldn't be on a public forum..whether that is at the Café or any other forum. If the person isn't present to defend themselves I see it as tacky myself, but that's my opinion. I think contacting the person in PM is far better than drawing us all into a disagreement.

Opinions on products or services may be said to warn consumers and let them judge for themselves if the disatisfaction is warrented. Others may chime in and add that they are extremely happy with the product but I agree contacting the individual or company first is not only fair but the ethical thing to do.

So that's my take on the whole subject and my own personal views. Good post Mgical!

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Profile of evolve629
Let's all embrace freedom of speech and respectful of others at the same time. Information is power for all of us.
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler
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Profile of calexa
What a good post. It should be recommended reading for everybody....

Optimists have more fun.....
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Profile of evolve629
May I add also "please search before you post?"
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler
Dave V
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Las Vegas, NV
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Profile of Dave V
Just an observation, but this text is essentially the same as our founder's "Café rules and etiquette" found here
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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319 Posts

Profile of Justin2200
On 2005-06-14 16:13, evolve629 wrote:
May I add also "please search before you post?"

This may be good a good tip. However, I have noticed that many newer users post questions, and get rude replies from people telling them to search. I think that if you TRULY are interested in helping someone, you might provide the information they are looking for, as well as links to other threads that have been posted. It's rude (IMO) to just say "Search for it." The Café has almost 1 MILLION messages. It takes a while to find what you are lookin for if you use the search.
The Presitidigitationist
Frank Tougas
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Minneapolis, MN
1712 Posts

Profile of Frank Tougas
I disagree Justin,
Search is a valuable tool and should be used as second nature to anyone asking general information. I use it all the time which is probably why I post far more responses than questions.

I agree, we should not say it in a disrespectful way. Many new people may not be aware of all the bells and whistles this board has to offer so a word or two giving helpful advice should not be taken as rude but part of a process of helping.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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Gastonia, NC
113 Posts

Profile of ruaturtle
I stand by the New York Times "Rule". If you wouldn't want what you are writing to be printed on the front page of the New York Times, don't send it!
I have found that I do not suffer from insanity... instead I rather enjoy it! : )

Poodle... the other white meat.
David Bilan
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Clarksville, TN
715 Posts

Profile of David Bilan
A piece of advice that will never fail you...

When writing something which may stir emotions, whether e-mail, political speech, editorial or Magic Café post, use your word processor, not this posting feature.

Save the document and look at the next day. Read the message from the viewpoint of a stranger. Is it still funny? Is it still true? Do you still want to say the same thing in the same way? If so, simply cut and paste your document here and post your reply. If you have second thoughts, make changes.

We all (well, almost all) start out here with a clean slate. The reputation you develop is built by your words. It's hard to change people's opinions, especially if they have a negative opinion of you.

Keep in mind, it's easy for any member to pull up any other member's posts for the past 30 days.

If still in doubt, post a question at the forum "I Want to See the Manager";2747
Or, send a PM to a Café veteran. Most folks are flattered for you to ask their opinion and as neutral observers, can offer great suggestions.

As of today, there are 20,053 members. Nearly 20,000 are people you probably would want as friends. Treat your friends the way you want to be treated.

I will now step down from my soapbox...
Yes, I am a magician. No I did not make my hare (hair) disappear... it just took early retirement.
Steve Brooks
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Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4763 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
These ideas are just SOME of the policies and advice found in:
Some posting guidelines... and in A few rules to remember Smile
Unfortunately, many folks who join The Magic Café never bother to read the actual policies and guidelines I wrote, even though they checked the box on joining that confirms they have read and agree to follow said advice.
It would certainly save us all a lot of time and energy. Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
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