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Ian Broadmore Special user 555 Posts |
Ok re my post no such thing as hypnosis. I will quantify my statement with a bit about my background and area of "expertise". I qualified as a "hypnotherapist" in 1985, and I am a member of the British Hypnotherapy association and hold a senior qualification in hypnotherapy practice from the general hypnotherapy standards council, I am also a member of the Institute of analytical hypnotherapists and numerous other official bodies. anyway, trumptet blowing over!. In the course of my career I have dealt with many hundreds of clients of both sexes and various ages, with various ""problems". I under take cipd as part of my training in other disciplines such as NLP, EFT, TFT. Twenty years of hand on practical experience, not armchair theorising has proven to me beyond a doubt "there is no such thing as hypnosis, and NLP is a crock of **** that has made a few individuals very rich!. Before I get attacked about this I have a tape of Richard Bandler made at a private seminar before anyone had even heard of NLP as he was just begining to market it. On the tape he states quite clearly when questioned that it a term he "invented" and it was bull***. People are always searching to attach a label to something, Hypnosis, trance, analogue marking, metaphor, regression, etc etc etc.
Waking hypnosis/sleeping hypnosis/deep trance. There are a few people on here who understand what I am saying , its not something that is easy to explain, Johnathan Royale (Bless him) for all his adverse press, past etc etc etc. DOES understand hypnosis (theres that damm word again ) and he "Knows" there is no such thing as hypnosis!. Recently I was hired by a major drugs company to take part in a scientific experiment whereby six voulenteers were wired up for ECH, GSR and eeg readings why an experienced "Hypnotherapist" (that word again) "hypnotised them" . The results were interesting and quantifiable, unfortuneatly as I signed a non disclosure form I cannot go into the details on here. But I say again There is no such thing as hypnosis. There are people that need direction in their lives that have a unfulfiled "need" to be told to do certain things, some consciously some unconsciously this need is fulfilled by people like me (therapist) a word I prefer. To do this "something " to them. Consciousness/subconsciousness are merely states of being in the "NOW". The moment is now, not the past which is unalterable or the future which is variable depending on choices made. Life is a waking dream of our making, synchronicitys do occur as has been scientifically proven by string theory and quantum mechanics, everybody on this site is a "Hypnotherapist" and everybody on here can be, and most of their lives are "hypnotised". Think on this and you will understand why there is "no such thing as hypnosis". that's it my brain is frazled, my reality altered, must be all that mirroring...:-0 |
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hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts |
On a minor point Ian, apart from giving the patient, punter whatever some assurance
what is the point of giving details about Qualifications in Hypnosiswhen there are NO recognised ones in the UK ? and how can you have a qualification in something that, as you say, doesn't exist. Howard |
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Ian Broadmore Special user 555 Posts |
Ah, Howard point taken. My point is I am not an armchair theorist that has read a book downloaded from ebay and call myself a Hypnotist. I studied, I took exams etc. Unfortuneatly in the world we live you sometimes have to "play the game" to get a title if its necessary for your career. You can set yourself up as a hypnomindnlptherapist tomorrow, but without professional insurance and a recognised diploma from an approved training school you wont get into Harley Street ( I have)
Although there is no recognoised national qualification in hypono at the moment. there will be withing less than five years. I have had on going dialogue with the BMA (british medical association) and there are steps being taken now to "legitimise" the profession if you can call it that. I also call myself a mindreader and magician but don't believe in it, do you |
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FLIM-FLAM New user 67 Posts |
I think the "Power of Suggestion" is more fitting!
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shrink Inner circle 2609 Posts |
Ian: how do you explain complete amnesia after spending two hours on stage performing to a crowd? That was the experience of 90 percent of my volunteers.
I have had as much experience as what you talk about yet I firmly believe that hypnosis exists. Explain the point above please.. There is no such thing as no hypnosis is just as valid an argument.. |
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Roki Special user London 749 Posts |
This is semantics . There is no DEFINITION for hypnosis . Hypnosis clearly exists .
But it is not a thing. It is the nature of words to define or put boundaries around things . But they are not the thing they describe. It takes skill and experience to produce the phenomena that Shrink describes . It is his skill in communication and specific experience in this context that let him influence those willing volunteers . Different people in a different place and nothing would happen. He does not get his hypnosis out of his bag and lay it on them . There are many varied states of mind . Many of them where we give ourselves over to the temporary control or direction of something external. The discrete states described as hypnosis are simply the focusing of attention on these processes. Paradoxically perhaps , formal hypnosis often occurs when a volunteer lets the perfomer define his experience as hypnosis.So in the end hypnosis exists when someone says it does ! And when you call it something else , it is . Thankyou for reading my little story . Goodbye. |
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Ian Broadmore Special user 555 Posts |
Shrink. complete amnesia after 90 minutes. Boredom..... only joking mate
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hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts |
Ian ..Touche.
Howard |
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Ian Broadmore Special user 555 Posts |
Touche
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
Whether you think it exists or doesn't exist they still pay you good money to get up on stage with 20 or so participants and have one great blast of a time. And they always feel well rested afterwards.
BTW, Shrink I like your new avatar :>) Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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kamus Veteran user Silver Spring, Md 369 Posts |
Fascinating discussion. Thanks, though the discussion raises more questions than it answers.
See if I've got this straight: A state called "hypnosis" exists but people can't agree on the term because the word "hypnosis" is really an inaccurate term filled with unfortunate stereotypical associations. Therefore the people that say that hypnosis doesn't exist are really saying "the public's idea of what 'hypnosis' technically, does not exist" and the people that say that it does exist are saying "yes,yes, what really happens in hypnosis is different from what the majority of people think it is, but we'll continue to use the word for convenience sake" And inducing hypnosis is more like exploiting a certain psychological peculiarity that exists in a certain kind of compliant spectator? And that, in a way, you're employing that person as a sort of stooge? Albeit one who is complying because of a deep seated need for direction? Is that about it? The question that didn't seem settled to me was whether the amnesia "induced" by the performer /hypnotist was a genuine amnesia or a further result of the subject continuing to "play along". Also, this is probably a dumb question that can't be answered other than by years of training but in general, how do you spot potential good subjects for hypnosis? Thanks again for the interesting thread. BTW, what is the axe that hypnotherapists have to grind? |
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Ian Broadmore Special user 555 Posts |
As an aside to this discussion about "hypnosis". If you really want to learn this mysterious "power" you can do a course which currently costs about £800 I think over six/twelve months, or....you can buy a little heard of book by the author of the course which explains everything to you for about £8 (he wrote the book before he started doing courses) if you can get it. It's out of print. I came across it years after doing my "course". The title? Successful Hypnotherapy by Neil French. a very clever businessman. Who although he runs courses understands fully "there is no such thing as hypnosis" just people.
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Scott Xavier Inner circle 3672 Posts |
Ian, no working hypnotist will EVER say what you did, it's career suicide. The reason people here on this board defend it is because the power is in the belief.
Altered state? Not sure what that is, although I do know if I concentrate on my breathing and relax, brain waves are altered. No mystical trance here, just normal biology. By complexifying (See my wordage even makes the subject complex) and misleading with psuedo-half truths, the power of the hypnosis myth grows. Is there something happening to the individuals, YES! Do people "BELIEVE" their under? YES! And that's where the power comes in. When a hypnotist has the belief of a client, many INCREDIBLES are possible. Everyone who goes to a hypnotist WANTS TO BELIEVE! And hence will be hypnotized. Is it a magical mystical all powerful trance, NO! Can some one benefit from increased visual imagery and complete relaxation? YES! Is hypnosis real? What's hypnosis? |
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shrink Inner circle 2609 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-19 16:57, Ian Broadmore wrote: Now we are getting a better picture as to why you believe there is no hypnosis. Perhaps there isn't the way you do it! True there is no hypnosis only people. But people are hypnosis machines by nature.. Quote:
On 2005-06-19 16:57, Ian Broadmore wrote: You mean he "believes"....there is a subtle difference. Shrink |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
The July 2001 issue of Scientific American published an excellent article exploring the reality of hypnosis.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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teejay Inner circle Liverpool, UK 1831 Posts |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-20 03:28, Ian Broadmore wrote: I'll certainly re-check this myself Ian, but I'm flabbergasted to hear French doesn't believe in hypnosis. His company (albeit he is now retired) 'IAH' (of which I believe you're a member?) practice Freudian analysis on the basis of hypno-therapy. I understand he leaves open the 'state' versus 'non-state' argument in his writings but I would have thought he helieved in hypnosis very much. Are you sure? Bobser Oh, and just a quickie on the Harley Street thing. I've been offered twice to take up practice in Harley Street. I hold a simple diploma in hypnotherapy and the main question I was asked was whether or not I wanted to 'pay the premium'. And because it was in a block management group I could be in there practicing for anything between £100 & £200 per month. So.. Harley Street? Not 'too' hard to get in-huh? Bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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teejay Inner circle Liverpool, UK 1831 Posts |
IMHO:
Perspective 1 In an NLP frame the popular NLP/ Ericksonian phrase 'There is no such thing as Hypnosis' suggests that if you tell them you are using hypnosis, you can act or say as you want and/or have the subject act or say what you/they want. Perspective 2 If you give it the name Hypnosis, people put parameters on it as to what you can do and not do and how to go about doing it etc. People like Karmilovitch, Kross and Jermay are going far beyond such 'official' parameters. They are operating in an area for which the popular name is 'B...s of Brass' (i.e it is not Hypnosis). In this area lots of things are posssible. This is the area people used before the title Hypnosis was coined. Perspective 3 Another NLP frame. It's all about beliefs, what you believe, what they believe. Again IMHO. TJ :) |
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Euangelion Special user 688 Posts |
So I suppose you don't believe in Mesmerism either?
Just kidding, it is indeed interesting, however, some of the involuntary reactions that "hypnotism taps into, such as, blushing and the article in Science does sound interesting, as well.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
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Ian Broadmore Special user 555 Posts |
If you're in a BMA recognized practice in Harley street, with a basic certificate you won't get in.
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