I agree with Ian. Hypnotism is a load of baloney. And NLP is even worse.
For those of you who would like a more scholarly appraisal than my blunt statement then I would suggest reading "They call it hypnosis" by Robert Baker.

I will not deny that people who come on stage THINK that they are hypnotised in the same way people con themselves that newspaper horoscopes are real. If you wish to call this self delusion "hypnosis" that is fine by me.

People can talk high faluting language and make pseudo science out of anything. They can quote university studies and babble in long words but to a street wise person who has been around it is easily seen through. NLP and Hypnosis have as much validity as astrology and as many big words. It takes years to become an accomplished astrologer if you do things the "proper" way. You can get just the same results if you can bluff your way through it.

It doesn't surprise me in the least that some eminent psychologist who writes books on hypnosis doesn't actually believe in it. I know personally a hypnotist who is a legend in hypnosis circles who told me that the thing was a load of bunk. He also has written learned articles about it.

Martin Breese the noted magic dealer once told me that another legendary hypnotherapist who has written very technical books on the subject and in fact was one of the leading lights in hypnotherapy training had informed Martin that in fact hypnotism didn't exist.

Martin said to me "--- -----" sat on that very chair you are sitting on and told me that hypnotism is baloney"

I have performed many hypnosis shows and at times have seen such strange goings on that I have been tempted to change my belief that the thing is hooey. But on reflection I realise that it is just mass hysteria. Evangelists get the same reaction without a hypnotic induction. People imagine that things are happening to them and they almost scare themselves into the state. Yes, I know that "scare' isn't the correct word but is the nearest thing I can come up with right now.

I also heard (I will admit this is rumour and hearsay only) that Ormond Mc'Gill himself admitted in an unguarded moment at a magic convention that hypnosis was bunk. It wouldn't surprise me. He has a permanent twinkle in his eye which makes me very suspicious of the New Age gobbledegook he comes up with.

Hey gibby,
Don't forget to answer my question to you on the post:
'Hypnosis to control a mind idea'
And Ian, just believe me, it'll save time mate. I'm not trying to be funny but a couple of my colleagues work out of Harley Street. It's infused with, well, just about anyone. Albeit good luck to you, as many still think it's for the top therapists, and no doubt it helps the hypnotic state, which of course you claim does not exist.
By the way Ian, I'd be grateful if you too would answer my question to gibby in the post: 'Hypnosis to control a mind idea' in 'Penny For Your Thoughts'. It's linked to women who have found themselves assaulted in this 'non-state'.
I'd appreciate your thoughts.
After all you 'could' be correct, although I find the thought extremely disturbing.

Bobser.

The Wikipedia has an informative entry on hypnosis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis

So does The Skeptic's Dictionary:

http://www.skepdic.com/hypnosis.html

--Mike

Re Famous Hypnotist. I know of one stage hypnotist who is very well know in Las Vegas who told me it was bunkum, just showmanship and people that want to perform . I also have a friend who worked as a clinical therapist and psychologist in a london teaching hospital. He trained at the same time as me and like me at the outset "believed" all the jargon that was put out as fact, all the NLP stuff etc. And guess what three years later he stoped doing hypnotherapy as it is called because he discovered himself it was a croc of S***E and he realised everything he was led to believe was in fact part of the hype.

It's refreshing to see that some people are open to reassessing their beliefs when presented with contrary evidence. Unfortunately, once something acquires a degree of academic sanction, however unmerited, there will always be a cadre of hardcore believers to perpetuate it. Whether the discipline in question is hypnosis, NLP, psychoanalysis, or whatever, the failure of objective research to back up its proponents' claims is seldom sufficient to dissuade them from their delusions.

After all, once one has invested years (and dollars) in study and training, received official certification and impressive-looking pieces of paper to hang on one's wall, and "practiced," there's a very strong motivation to persist in the role.

I admire your friend, Ian. Clearly, he has integrity that all clinical psychologists would do well to emulate.

--Mike

Hi,
if there is no such a thing as hypnosis how does hypnotic anaesthesia work?

Ok I will put my money where my mouth is. I will pay £1000 to a charity of your choice if a qualified hypnotherapist with professional indemnity insurance can A/Hypnotise me to have amnesia about a given subject/item
b/hypnotise me to re-call a past life with checkable data as to its validity
c/put me into a hypnotic state so that I want to smoke , I am a non smoker.
d/uncover a memory of my past with specific details as to time, date, place, event.
The therapist should be professionally trained with a minimum of five years experience and be willing to have the session digitally filmed and recorded for a forthcoming programe. if your interested pm me and I will provide further details.

I forgot to add. If YOU CANNOT HYPNOTISE ME TO MEET THE FOLLOWING criteria YOU will have to pay £1000 to the charity of my choice. All criteria must be met. If I cant be hypnotised (which I cant as hypnosis does not exist) you pay up. Fair ?.

Fair? Hardly!
Even a state theorist agrees that people won't do anything they don't want to do under hypnosis. I have a feeling that Ian doesn't want to pay out 1000 pounds.He will therefore not go into trance even if he believes in it which he doesn't.

I sense humour at work here.

I think its fair. The subject was hypnosis Im saying it doesn't exist. Hypnotise me, which, if YOU BELIEVE you can you will, Im saying you wont. £1000 cash in a certified deposit account overviewed by my solicitor a genuine challenge.

It's not fair......

Why you don't do the bet not with you but with a third trustble man?
Have you fear that hypnosis exist and to lose the money?

I don't think hypnosis exists.I don't think it does exist too.I simply don't know.

But It's documented that peolple have done delivery and clinical operation by hypnotic anaesthesia?

This is a bit lenghty but worth a read.

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/......033.html

Howard

Why is it not fair spagetti?.Ive no fear Ive put my balls on the table Im saying if hypnosis exists I can be hypnotiserd I was hoping someone would rise to the challenge.

No You know that hypnosis exists and you know how to counter it!You want my money bad boy!

Moreover hypnosis exists ......I have seen Derren Brown put a big needle in the hand of a poor boy and you know what?The boy feel nothing!!!!!

Just kidding

Howard thx for the link!

The challenge is bunk. It is a known fact that those that challenge aren't going to go into trance and are a waste of time. You don't want to be hypnotized therefore you won't be. Since it is all about desire and expectancy you don't meet the criteria. Since there is much exidence that it does exist I would say that the onus is on you to prove it doesn't rather than for us to prove it does.

Everytime I do a show I prove the existence of Hypnosis. What are you doing Ian to disprove its existence.

Martin

C'mon guys, you heard the Harley Street therapist; "I've put my balls on the table." This of course will be the same therapist who refuses to answer certain questions. But never mind, let's move on...
Ian, there are many in here who have forgot more than you've learned about hypnosis, but even they will agree that you're on safe money. If a person doesn't want to be hypnotised it simply cannot happen (there are circumstances of course where even I have proved this to be untrue however these are exceptions to the rule).
So youre arguments aren't worth replying to.
As for your assertion that 'the state' does not exist, so what? You're either correct or wrong, but you will not be able to prove a negative. It simply can't be done. It never has been in the history of recorded philosophy.
Anyway, if you fight hard enough in life for your negative opinions, the bad news is that you get to keep them.

Regards,
Bobser
ps: I spent an evening with Neil French (re your earlier post)two weeks ago whilst he was over from Spain. Believe me, he certainly believes in the hypnotic state!!!
We never really know who we're talking to in here, do we?

Ive made a fair challenge a bit like Randi/Uri Geller. why do you think geller did not accept??? the same reason no one on here will they talk the talk but wont risk their reputations?/ money. I will. the offer stands and is genuine. Lets see someone put their money where there mouth is. If you like raise the stake £2000? £3000 Id happilly do it. Will someone on here ? I doubt it. In fact great Idea lets get Neil french to do it? after all he is the guy that trained me! and I remember a conversation he had with myself and another therapist in a certain hotel at a training session a few years ago...about hypnosis.

A quote from a recent review "According to Royle, all hypnosis is at worst little more than a trick based upon a mixture of social compliancy and “the karaoke effect” and at best, self hypnosis…if you believe in self hypnosis. "
A question; If you perform a card trick and ask somebody to select a card and remember it what happens and why do they do what they do???. if you ask a spectator to shut their eyes , deeply relax, and enter a deep level of relaxation what do they do ?
And why????? Then you will understand? theres no such thing as Hypnosis.

And further info: "Generally, under hypnosis people become more receptive to suggestion, causing changes in the way they feel, think, and behave. This suggestibility has led some psychologists to believe that hypnosis does not actually correspond to any underlying mechanism of the human mind, but is merely a social construct so well-known that strong social expectations are played out by subjects, who believe they are in a state of hypnosis, behaving in a way that they imagine a hypnotized person would behave. This would tend to denigrate hypnosis to the status of a purely social phenomenon."
And The Hawthorne effect: "The Hawthorne Effect more generally refers to the tendency of subjects to attempt to please researchers."


Posted: Jun 21, 2005 6:42pm
----------------------------------------
And Finally for all you doubters out there and I quote:

And : " Robert Baker puts it more bluntly:

But Ian . We did this already . Don't tell me you still don't remember .
If I said Moll Flanders , Smoking cigarellos ," Please don't molest me a third time, Sir Rodney!"
Anything coming back ?
We did of course destroy the video as requested.

Touche Roki

Gentlemen, let's start with a few things about hypnosis as a state of mind: first, it is measureable. See the article I cited in an earlier post - UCLA and Harvard are hardly to be sneezed at as research organizations, neither are Yale and Stanford. Do the research. It's hard to argue with the brain scans on this one, Penn and Teller notwithstanding.

Did you become a professional magician or mentalist by reading ONE book or going to ONE weekend seminar? I sure hope not. And I sure hope you folks are smart enough not to buy into the "I'll Make You A Million Dollar Stage Hypnotist In One Weekend" nonsense out there.

It doesn't work for magic. It doesn't work for mentalism and it sure as heck doesn't work for hypnosis!

When you walk on stage, it's you and the volunteers and that is where the professional meets the real challenge - what do you do when someone reacts in a manner that is unexpected?

How do you cope with someone who spontaneously regresses? How do you avoid phobic reactions in your suggestion formulations? What do you do to mitigate a phobic reaction should one occur? How do you deal with catatonic withdrawal? How do you control for and minimize non-specified post-hypnotic triggering of suggestion? How do you limit post-show heightened suggestibility? How do you deal with a subject that is suddenly non-responsive?

If you cannot answer these questions, then you have NO business going on stage and performing as a stage hypnotist. Period. Whether you believe in hypnosis or not is not the issue when you are performing - it is the AUDIENCE'S belief systems that you have to deal with and how they react to what you are doing with them on stage. Plain and simple.

If you do not know how to deal with those belief systems - and they will be as varied from one person to another as they seem to be in this thread - then you are a serious danger to yourself, to your volunteers and to stage hypnosis as a whole because nobody in this business needs the kind of bad press that a show where any of these kinds of things can draw.

I am speaking solely as a performing professional at the moment, nothing more, nothing less. If you do not understand that each person on that stage with you - and in the audience - is an individual, each with their own baggage and each with the potential to react in wonderful or really odd ways and that you have to keep a close eye on them, then you have no business being on that stage doing this kind of show.

I know that I am going to catch some flack for this stance as I am usually a pretty easy-going voice on these boards, but frankly, I've seen enough hypnosis stage shows where injuries have occurred, where phobic responses have occurred and where people have gone catatonic - all due to the completely avoidable suggestions of untrained stage hypnotists. I really feel that I have to stick my head up and say something in a loud enough voice to be heard over the argument over whether hypnosis exists or not.

That's not the question - folks.

The question is whether YOU can handle a hypnosis show - and whether you can handle one of those shows when someone goes off in a really strange direction - and they will eventually. No matter how careful you think you are. And you better have the training and the quickness of mind to handle it in a professional manner. If you don't, expect a call form someone with a lawsuit in their hand and expect a LOT of grief for a prolonged period of time.

In today's litigious society, you can kiss your assets goodbye because you can bet your last red penny that there's a lawyer out there (regardless of which side of the pond you are on) just waiting to sue for big, big damages. And the perception is that any problem caused will be YOUR fault, regardless of whether you win or not. You will still lose because defending such a case costs BIG money. And the damage to your reputation will be very difficult to recover. And that means further loss of income on top of what you will lose defending the suit.

Can any of us afford that?

I sincerely doubt it - even with liability insurance - which usually only covers physical injuries anyway.

So CYA - Cover Your Assets and get the professional training and the certifications, not just the weekend wonder slips or the ebook readings.

Lee Darrow, C.H.