The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » An American View or Return to Sanity » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Steve Brooks
View Profile
Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4747 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
I received the following in an email from a friend. I thought some of you might enjoy reading it. Smile



************************************



I for one, am quite disturbed by the actions of some so-called American citizens; and I am tired of this nation worrying about whether or not we are offending some individual or their culture.



Since the terrorist attacks on September 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely

settled in New York and Washington D.C. when The "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.



I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. In fact, our country's population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants; however, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some native Americans, need to understand.



First of all, it is not our responsibility to

continually try not to offend you in any way. This idea of America being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.



As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American

Way" has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.



Our forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker Hill, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea & Vietnam. We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language.

Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society learn our language!



"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and this is clearly documented throughout our history.



If it is appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to Him in prayer in times of crisis.



If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud to have Him. We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably defended our freedoms.



We celebrate Independence Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have parades, picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag. As an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever and wherever I choose.



If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.



The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have

no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.



We are Americans, like it or not, this is our country, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we will allow you every opportunity to do so.



But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American freedom, the right to leave!!!
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
Andy Leviss
View Profile
Inner circle
NYC
1179 Posts

Profile of Andy Leviss
Yeah, but with all this talk of God, aren't we forgetting the whole freedom of religion and separation of church and state that our country was founded on? Personally, I think that it's wrong that "In God We Trust" is our motto and that God is mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance, as those fly right in the face of the above basic principles on which our country was founded.



Because I'm an agnostic, does that make me un-American? Last time I checked the Constitution, certainly not, although it seems that this is what this piece is implying.



This piece also attacks new immigrants for not speaking English. I'd argue that most immigrants who don't speak English ARE trying their hardest to learn English. To expect them to speak perfect English right off the boat is absolutely ridiculous. And yes, some folks who come here are just too old to learn English, and in most cases the younger members of their family do learn English, and speak their native language at home so that they can both communicate with the older relative and keep on their traditions in addition to what they learn of our culture.



If we're gonna start going back to the "founding principles" of this country, let's not do it selectively. Freedom of religion and separation of church and state were key principles that formed this country, and throughout time we've emphasized how important it is to us as a country to be accepting of others.



If you want to be this close-minded, go right ahead, but for goodness' sake don't do so under the false banner of patriotism.



--Andy
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
Andy Leviss
View Profile
Inner circle
NYC
1179 Posts

Profile of Andy Leviss
By the way, there originally was no

"American Culture". What we know as American culture came from a melding of all the cultures from other countries that were brought here when folks came here. If you want the true American culture, you'd do well to go look into the Native American cultures. That's the closest you'll get (and even they were not necessarily native to this country).



Think about that for a minute...
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
Steve Brooks
View Profile
Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4747 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
Andy,

I personally have made no statements one way or the other. As the post said, someone sent that piece to me, and I thought many here might be interested.



If you think having certain things on our money, plege, etc are wrong, tell the government.



If you are offended, don't read it anymore, I'm sure you will feel better.

Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
Scott O.
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
1141 Posts

Profile of Scott O.
Wow-- Andy. Its obvious you have some deep emotions about this. Probably as deep as the person who created the above message. Certainly, emotion is part of our makeup, and I wish everyone felt so strongly about their convictions. If that were so, this country would be a lot better off.



However, we need to keep things in perspective and take an accurate view of history. There is no "separation of church and state" mentioned or implied in our constitution. It's not there. What we have in the first amendment is what is know as the establishment clause.



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."



I could write more, but I will borrow the following paragraph from http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html



"The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. The congregation heard a widespread rumor that the Congregationalists, another denomination, were to become the national religion. This was very alarming to people who knew about religious persecution in England by the state established church. Jefferson made it clear in his letter to the Danbury Congregation that the separation was to be that government would not establish a national religion or dictate to men how to worship God. Jefferson's letter from which the phrase "separation of church and state" was taken affirmed first amendment rights. Jefferson wrote:



"I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

The reason Jefferson choose the expression "separation of church and state" was because he was addressing a Baptist congregation; a denomination of which he was not a member. Jefferson wanted to remove all fears that the state would make dictates to the church. He was establishing common ground with the Baptists by borrowing the words of Roger Williams, one of the Baptist's own prominent preachers. Williams had said:

When they have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the candlestick, and made his garden a wilderness, as at this day. And that there fore if He will eer please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world...(2)



The "wall" was understood as one-directional; it's purpose was to protect the church from the state. The world was not to corrupt the church, yet the church was free to teach the people Biblical values."
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
Andy Leviss
View Profile
Inner circle
NYC
1179 Posts

Profile of Andy Leviss
Steve,

I didn't say that you said those, I was responding to the notably anonymous author of the piece. In fact, I specifically edited my reply before posting to avoid wrongfully addressing it to you instead of the piece's author.



Any "you"'s remaining in my reply are intended in the generic sense of the word, not to refer specifically to you as the poster.



Respectfully,

Andy
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
Steve Brooks
View Profile
Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4747 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
Thanks for the clarification.

Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
Andy Leviss
View Profile
Inner circle
NYC
1179 Posts

Profile of Andy Leviss
No problem, and my apologies if I was originally harsh or too personal about this. As you may know, I'm a moderator at another magic board, and I'm constantly reminding posters there to keep things from getting personal. I should know better, but occasionally passion gets in the way of judgment :o)



--Andy
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
donaldlaporte
View Profile
New user
new hampshire
46 Posts

Profile of donaldlaporte
It sounds to me that the wounds of 911 are still very much open and bleeding, as they should be, but there also seems to be alot of finger pointing at some people's ethnic background, boy, I'll tell you, Americas the greastest country in the world.



But, we sure do forget rather easy about the way this country was created, do you think the Native Americans were wondering as our forfathers were destroying their homes, their landmarks, why we were not taking the time to learn their native tongue.



This country seems to do alot of finger pointing and always has instead of trying to fix it's own shortcommings I could sit here half the night and compare the horrible accounts that have taken place through out time and other countries and our own, and show you with out a doubt that this country has done alot of things that it shouldn't be proud of.



As Americians we shouldn't be either, but as I said we seem to have a short memory, all the different people who make this country up is what makes us the most devirse and most chershed country in the world.



The person who wrote that orignal post forgot to mention at all those great battles, that we won where our blood was spilled, it was the blood of a black man, a Irish man, a French man, a Chinese man, an Italian man, need I go further, all these men together are what America is, this is what created this country let's not lose sight of it.



It is a terrible and unforgetable thing that happened to this country on 911 but let's only blame the one's that are responsible not the innocent one's who may look like them or believe in a different god or speak a different language, lets concentrate on bringing the attackers to justice and stop wasting time on negative issues that have no true bearing on what this country was built on or who lives here or what language they speak.



Hey these are just my thoughts, because, when we start telling people were they can live and what tongue they must speak we are no better then the country most of these people are fleeing.



Just food for thought.





sincerly,

donald Smile
Big Fat Daddy
View Profile
New user
Louisiana, USA
13 Posts

Profile of Big Fat Daddy
Well, I have to agree with "Anonymous".



Let's just put the shoe on the other foot for a moment.



Let's suppose that I come to your house, carrying my clothes, everything I own with me, and announce that I'm moving in with you. I don't ask your permission, I just announce "This is how it's gonna be." I believe that would probably start the difficulties, right there. But think about it, who invites these people to move to this country? Nobody, they just come over here.



Now, let's suppose, that I am living in your home, and I tell you that watching football on Sunday afternoon offends me. We can't watch football, we have to watch golf, because golf is the least violent sport. YOU can't even watch football when I'm not there, because it's still offensive to me to watch golf on a television that has had a football game on it. (That is a silly comparison, but some of the complaints that are put forth as "serious" by some people are just as silly.) We now have more problems, am I right?



I could go on, but I think you get the gist of my direction here.



I'm not opposed to people coming to this country looking for a better way of life. Heck, I'm looking for a better way of life, myself, so I don't blame them for that.



And, I don't mind moving over to make room for them, either. But I don't want them telling me what I can do, and what I can't do. And, when push comes to shove, I don't want my government siding with them either.



If the things that most "Americans" do bothers a few people, then they should (as Anonymous said) seek a more suitable arrangement for themselves. (I hear Uraguay is nice this time of year.)



LOL, I know if it was me, and you just insisted on watching football every Sunday, I'd move out! Smile



Pete
Magicman0323
View Profile
Special user
Just outside parts unknown.
713 Posts

Profile of Magicman0323
I'm not going to comment on this post one way or the other. Hmmm wait a minute I think I just did Smile



No serious, I liked reading that, thanks Steve for sharing.



I for one am proud to see people coming together like this, Smile although I'm sad that it took something like Sept 11th to get the patriotic ball rolling for some people. Smile



but there is no time like the present right!

Smile
You'll wonder when I'm coming, you'll wonder even more when I'm gone. - Max Malini
Andy Leviss
View Profile
Inner circle
NYC
1179 Posts

Profile of Andy Leviss
Quote:

On 2001-12-29 01:15, Big Fat Daddy wrote:

But think about it, who invites these people to move to this country? Nobody, they just come over here.





I was planning to leave this thread be, but I can't let this statement sit on its own. We invited them, time and time again. We opened our doors to others. We were those outsiders once. Unless you're of Native American descent, your ancestors weren't invited here, they took it upon themselves to come to find a better life than where they were.



Why was it okay for your ancestors to come here and follow their own desires, but once they became settled here it was no longer okay for anyone else to come?



The most explicit invitation to "them" (as you so coldly refer to immigrants) can be found in the words of poet Emma Lazarus, as inscribed on the Statue of Liberty (which served as a welcoming beacon for immigrants to Ellis Island for many decades):



"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore./Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" (from "The New Colossus", Emma Lazarus).

--Andy
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
HI,

I always find it funny all this patriotism it is obviously bred into you over there.



Have you ever asked yourselves why the only people that think that America is the greatest country in the world are Americans?



Greatest at what, Bragging? Self praise?



You talk of freedom of speech and expression, yet all appear to be brainwashed into the same old drivel.



Sorry, just an outside opinion of what we see

phillip
Steve Brooks
View Profile
Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4747 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
I knew when I posted the letter that I got in the mail, that it would generate a slew of different responses.



Some people have a difficult time hearing anothers point of view without becoming very emotional. I guess it's just human nature.



Each of us feels different about such subjects on a different level, that's a fact.



I'm not even sure the problem is people coming to America. I believe a lot of the problem is with some of the folks who were born and raised here. Some of those are the one's who feel it is their duty to Look out for the newcomers. I'm sure the newcomers are quite capable of looking out for themselves, especially when you consider some of the places they have left behind.



My own family, for example, has it's roots in Austria and Germany. Does that make them Nazis? Of course not. In fact, the Nazis took my great grandfather's business from him, and then threw him in a concentration camp because he helped some Jewish folks out.



The only reason he survived is because the British were drawing close, and the Nazis abandoned the camp, leaving all the prisoners free to go. I'll never forget seeing the Swastika they burned into his chest to make an example out of him!

Pretty heavy stuff to see and hear when you are only nine... but I remember.



I do believe America is a fine country, but I also believe we are getting very full. I do think our government needs to look out for more of it's own citizens, we have a lot of folks here that need help as well.



One could go on and on about such matters, and still there would not be any one right answer, at least coming from us humans who by our very nature tend to screw things up one way or another.



I hope this thread helped everyone to at least think for a moment. I know it made me look at things a bit closer.

Smile



_________________

Life is not a problem to be solved...

but a mystery to be lived.
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » An American View or Return to Sanity » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL