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NJJ![]() Inner circle 6437 Posts ![]() |
To allow cancellations, even at the last minute, for children's parties. Maybe 3 or 4 times a year I get a panicy call from a mum who has a problem with chicken pox etc and wants to cancel and I let them. And sure, once in a blue moon someone abuses the systems and experiences last minute buyer remorse and pulls out. Its not big deal and it works well for me since the policy gets me more bookings then I lose.
However, for the first time EVER I had this bizarre situation. I rang up a woman the night before the party to confirm. (rang at 6:00, party was 10:00 the next morning) and she said "Oh yeah...I couldn't get the venue (school) so we cancelled the party" I asked "when was this" and she said "oh, about a month ago"! She didn't call me, she had a WRITTEN confirmation of the booking and yet she didn't feel she should let me know! What would have happened if I just showed up at the school the next morning!?!?! Is not the cancellation that bothers me. Like I said, its a part of my policy and I put up with the occasion cancellation. Its the fact she DIDN'T actually cancel!!! I'm sure this will never happen again but I just thought it was too weird not to mention. |
Billy Bo![]() Special user 627 Posts ![]() |
How annoying. out of interest do you take a non refundable deposit written in your confirmation contract?
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NJJ![]() Inner circle 6437 Posts ![]() |
Not for kid's parties. If I was take a 50% deposit then I would end up with an extra $300-$400 per year. I do about 200 kids parties per year which means I would have to chase up, receive, bank and record 200 deposits. I rather lose the money, save time & effort and let people feel good about my business for not taking their money.
However, that is ONLY for kid's parties. When bigger money is involved I usually ask for either 30% or even full payment on the day, in advance. |
James Munton![]() Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts ![]() |
Nicholas,
That is annoying. I agree with you about deposits for birthdays. I don't do it either. Instead, what I do is send two copies of the confirmation letter and ask the parent to sign and return the copy. I also include a stamped envelope for their convenience. Although probably not legally enforceable, the act of signing and returning the letter seems to cement the arrangement in the client's mind. So far, touch wood, I've never had a last-minute cancellation using this system. Best, James |
rossmacrae![]() Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2492 Posts ![]() |
It happens - every now and then (rarely) it has happened to me, too. I think you're working things right, and if your "idiot-detecting antenna" is in tune, you should be able to weed out almost all of these. The remaining defaulting clients will be far less than the number of people you'll lose by requiring a deposit (surprising how many "never get around" to sending a deposit.)
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Andini![]() Special user Columbus, OH 685 Posts ![]() |
I had a similar experience. The night before the show, I called the lady in order to make sure everything was set for the next day, and she said, "Oh, we decided we couldn't afford you, so we can't have you come." Gee thanks for telling me the night before when I called you! What was more annoying was the fact that I had to turn down another (higher-paying) show for the same time slot because I had already committed to the party.
But at that point, there's not a whole lot you can do. I figured I'd just let it go and not get too mad about it. |
Salazar Magic![]() Veteran user New Jersey 344 Posts ![]() |
Quote:
Although probably not legally enforceable, the act of signing and returning the letter seems to cement the arrangement in the client's mind. So, why is it not legally enforceable? |
NJJ![]() Inner circle 6437 Posts ![]() |
Most self written booking agreements could be picked apart by a half decent lawyer. There is a huge list of terms and criteria that are required within a contract under contract to make in water tight.
Also, who is going to take a mum who cancels a $200 kid's party to court? |
Mark Tripp![]() Regular user 148 Posts ![]() |
Someone who wants to be on Judge Judy?
In truth, it has nothing to do with "second thoughts". It has to do with, "I found someone cheaper". The sad truth is that to the buying public, there is not a dollars worth of difference between magic acts, so if they find someone charging less, you are gone. I have had people call me and say "Billy is sick so we had to cancel the party", yet they did have the party, just with a cheaper act. I have arrived at the house, and been told by a child, cause mom won't come to the door. "We had to cancel the party". You will get a lot of these in places that build new casinos, cause mom just lost the party money the night before. However, on the flip side, I know many local magicians who will cancel a party because they get a better paying gig. They justify it by pointing out the above things that happened to them. I have recieved frantic calls from people trying to find a performer due to this. It is why I changed the horse I hook my wagon to, and as such have less problems. All I can say is, this is the nature of the beast, and as such it is part of the game. |
James Munton![]() Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts ![]() |
Quote:
In truth, it has nothing to do with "second thoughts". It has to do with, "I found someone cheaper". Well if this is true, you have two options: 1. Be the cheapest magician in your area. 2. Differentiate yourself from the other magicians. I know which option I prefer. Once you establish yourself as the magician that kids ask for by name, you can command a higher fee and you won't have cancellations. You want to get to the stage where the birthday mom feels lucky she was able to get you. Until you reach that point however you might want to look at your phone script. You should have one although don't necessarily read it word for word. In the script you want to emphasize the reasons why your show is different from and better than the other magicians in your area. You should always answer the question, "Why should I hire YOU?" even if they don't directly ask it. Even if your act is identical to the guy down the road, you should be able to find something unique to you that you can sell. Of course I am talking about a USP - unique selling proposition. If you don't know what that is, do a google search. Then you need to "close the sale" by getting their agreement to book you and sending a confirmation letter which they sign and send back. Get to the bookstore or library and get a couple of books on selling, marketing and advertising. The time you spend doing this will repay itself a thousand-fold. As for the local magicians who cancel if they get a better paying gig...they won't last long. Word does get round. I think on this occasion Nicholas was just unlucky. But if you find yourself having frequent cancellations, you really need to look at your sales process. Good luck! James |
squando![]() Elite user 444 Posts ![]() |
I have had some cancel...I just let it go..Part of the biz.
Frank
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JamesinLA![]() Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts ![]() |
I always ask for a despite for kid's shows. In my experience, the mom's actually like that because they want to make sure they have everything set. If you've taken their money then they know you won't flake out. Before I took deposits, I had a few parents asking me if I wanted you. One mom kept asking me over and over and I finally realized that she wanted to give me a deposite for her own peace of mind.
James, How's the marketing dvd coming? Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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FacadeTheStiltBoy Elite user Greensboro NC 474 Posts ![]() |
It is not just with kids shows and it is the same with the sideshow profession as well.
It happens with the nightclub scene and there are some seriously seriously weird ones that I have gotten, including "The club got shut down" (or event) "I'm sorry I totally forgot, instead I hired strippers", "I don't know about this weather". The list keeps going on and on. |
Tony S![]() Special user New York 582 Posts ![]() |
All of this can be avoided by always using a written performance agreement and getting a deposit. Mine states that cancellation by the client will result in forfeiture of their deposit if the cancellation is within 14 days of the event. This does a few things in the mind of the client.
1) They know they are working with a professional - this gives them peace of mind. 2) They are financially attached to the business transaction and are therfore less likely to cancel. 3) It insures they are aware how valuable your time is. Additionally, given the circumstances Nicholas described I would have at least received some compensation for my time. Under other circumstances, if the client called me and the cancelation was for a legitimate reason, I would likely apply the deposit to a future show. Just my two cents. |
Ashkenazi the Pretty Good![]() Veteran user Northern California 366 Posts ![]() |
When I get a deposit, no problem.
When I don't get a deposit, sometimes I have problems. Voila. ATPG
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We could have been practicing! |
NJJ![]() Inner circle 6437 Posts ![]() |
I tend to let the little ones get away. I have more important things to do then to chase up deposits from every gig.
The price I pay for that is these sorts of cancellations |
Bill Nuvo![]() Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts ![]() |
Isn't it more legal to call the deposit a "retainer" fee. Since a deposit (depending on your local laws) is legally refundable if no service or product rendered with the exception of some lengthy wordy contract stanzas. A retainer fee says this is a fee to keep this date so as not to book anything else from either end...
I have also just started to take retainer fees for children's birthday parties. I haven't had much problem (in 23 years maybe 5 cases from children's parties), but I too am finding parents/people are used to paying and ask about a deposit anyway, and it keeps the business uniform to have similar policies throughout for every type of event/performance. I have only ever had to cancel three times for myself (knock on wood). One was the directions I recieved were horrible (it was through another company--it was for a telegram and the directions said go to this area. The address is_______just ask around, people will know where the street is...well no one did and there was no phone number either). The The second was due to weather. A blizzard closed the roads. The third was becuase I got adult chicken pox! (most likely from a previous Party with a contageous kid) |
Allan![]() Elite user 405 Posts ![]() |
While I don't perform at childrens parties, I always use a contract & take a deposit. when it is a last minute show I fax the contract. I almost never go out without a written contract. My contract states that when there is not time for a contract, 1/3 of the contract price is expected if the show is cancelled.
I have never had a show cancelled at the last minute with the exception of a death or major illness in the family. If a show is cancelled for a "good" reason as above, I always return the deposit. I have only kept a deposit on two occasions. One was with a client that instructed me to keep the deposit because her company knew when they hired me that they were going to cancel the event. The other cancelled a month prior but I had turned down 4 shows for the same time & was not able to rebook any of them. The reason for the cancellation was a new President decided to cancel the event to save money. |
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