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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Question on Dual Reality Effects (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

rumburak
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Hi,

Here is a question on the issue of Dual Reality Effects such as "Open Transmission" by Kennedy - this could also apply to "Touching on Hoy" by Luke Jermay and other similar effects which include a sufficiently specific, memorable piece of information.

I assume that people are familiar with these routines so please don't discuss the secret since it is irrelevant for my question.

I understand that these effects can play quite strong and can get people talking afterwards.

This is good ... BUT ...

Do people ever recall what happened and what they did and why they did it? What if people ask the "receiver" in the Kennedy effect how they felt when the image came to their mind? Or if people ask "Why did you think of that particular ***" in the Jermay routine? The response will (or at least *MAY*) get the performer busted and expose the effect.

To make matters worse there is no audience control and misdirection the performer can use since this may happen post-show. This risk of exposure will probably be substantially smaller for the Tossed-Out Deck since the card(s) selected are just random and meaningless so there is little risk that anybody would care or remember.

So did this ever happen (to anybody's knowledge)? And what did you do?
The Gentleman
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It has never happened to me; I like to introduce some post-hypnotic amnesia for just that reason.
Ken Dyne
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Hi, from the horse's mouth:

There are ways to prevent this from happening.

First of all get the spectastors on your side, asif you were going to stooge them so that they will feel liek they don't want to expose anything, if they should suspect.

I HATE self plugging, however I must say that in Thoughts So Far I have written up the full version of Open Transmission which includes a subtlety or three which means this wont happen. The subtlety can be applied to any dual reality effect.

Basically the two people ("participants") can talk afterwards and still not discover the secret.

I think with some thought you could also come up with your own ways of doing this.

I hope this helps,

Best,
Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
KN_Magic
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I love the effect 'Open Transmission', although as I don't do stage yet have not had the oportunity to use it. Dual reality and to a greater extent instant stooging has always bothered me a bit, as what if the spectator decides to go completely against it? How do you ensure an instant stooge co-operates?
Perhaps it's an experience thing, and as I get more confident and better at spectator management I'll be able to contol things more, but I'd appreciate tips from anyone nonetheless.

Kevin.
My candle burns at both ends; it will not last the night; but ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - it gives a lovely light!
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Gordon Fisher
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Quote:
On 2005-06-24 10:31, Kennedy wrote:
I HATE self plugging
Kennedy



liar, look at your signature
ksalaz1
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Bumbacla,

I hope that was a joke. Kennedy is more useful than you can imagine.

Ken
"Master of the Obvious"
Jonathan Townsend
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Why didn't Annigan just tell Obi-wan that he was concerned for his wife?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
DarkKnight
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Just stop worrying about it. If you sort your spectator management out it's never a problem - i.e. don't pick two people sat next to each other !
Ken Dyne
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I think its important to see the distinct difference between Instant Stooging and Dual Reality.

Stooging, the spectator is fully aware that he must co-operate and help the performer to fool everyone. Essentially he knows the secret.

Dual Reality means that neither parties knows how the effect is acheived, and they are both totally fooled. However it does mean that they recieve a different interpretation (another reality) of the outcome.

For example:

Instant stooging would be you having a little sticker saying "please help me and think of the 2 of diamonds". For this you NEED the spectator on your side, as they must cooperate for the effect to be acheived.

In dual reality you might say something of the ilk: "you could have thought of any card", to the audience the perosn simply thinks of a card. To the spectator they chose a card from a deck and remembered it. In this case the phrasing makes perfect sense to both parties, however has a totally different meaning.

Best,
Kennedy

An after thought: for more detailed ideas on dual reality check out the perospn who knows most and taught me everything, Kenton Knepper in any of his writings and in particular his amazing Wonder Words series, which is now available on CD.
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
rumburak
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Thank you very much for the responses so far. It appears that I have to work on both the spectator selection and the precise wording if I want to pull something like this off successfully.

Now, one basic concern is the "heckler" type spectator who insists on detailed interviewing all the participants after the effect. Even if I have chosen my assistants carefully, does it never happen that there is someone around who harasses them afterwards with questions like "Why did you think of that?" etc.?

Or even a friend who wants to know if people are going on a sailing tour and that's why both of them came up with images of boats ... the images in "Open Transmission" could become a conversational topic and that's where things can go bad.

In the Luke Jermay routine mentioned a similarly bad question might be "Who the h*ll is Liz?" by the participant's significant other ...
Vision
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But the participant's significant other wouldn't necessarily think that he/she was the one thinking of the name. But sure dual reality will always present problems.

Sincerely,
Daniel Young
www.awonderfulmind.blogspot.com
check it out for new products.
KN_Magic
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Quote:
On 2005-06-25 14:34, rumburak wrote:

Or even a friend who wants to know if people are going on a sailing tour and that's why both of them came up with images of boats ... the images in "Open Transmission" could become a conversational topic and that's where things can go bad.



Something Rumburak wrote made me think. Would a problem with DR be in presenting it to people who know each other and therefore have unlimited access after the event and also a lots of people who know both (e.g. work functions, university halls). Does this suggest DR is best limited to large events, pay for ticket open-acess shows etc?

Kevin.
My candle burns at both ends; it will not last the night; but ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - it gives a lovely light!
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Ken Dyne
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I think this depends.

Consider this way:

In my fork bending routine, which I perform walk around and close up. The fork is twisting in the sopectator's hand and they actually feel it twisting...or do they? I ask them if they feel the heat from my hands to begin with. Then I turn the fork round in their clenched fist and ask "can you feel it twisting" This is another simple dual reality. To the spectator himself he can feel me twisting the fork around in his hand, to everyone else this guy can feel the fork mangling itself inside of his hand. I'm sure this is not original to me, but nonetheless interesting.

With thoughtm dual reality allows you to add layers to your performances to make it seem like you are doing even more than you really are. And all this with the power of words...i feel a Kenton moment coming on.

Best,
Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
Roki
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Another wicked example Kennedy ! I am in a dual state right now ,. I was about to order your book and get the extra layer to solve this DR issue . However now you have suggested we might come up with it ourselves I am challenged to do so!
Of course I'd still have to get the book to see if its the same answer , and even if its different I'd probably think I could have thought of it , given time.
Aaaaargh !
Is there an antidote to mentalist overexposure syndrome??
KN_Magic
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Thanks for the input Kennedy, it's given me a lot to think about.
Love the fork bending thing. I'm always trying to achieve as much as possible effect wise by doing as little as possible method wise.
That makes me seems lazy (not what I intended!)

Kevin.
My candle burns at both ends; it will not last the night; but ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - it gives a lovely light!
Edna St. Vincent Millay
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