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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Kolossal Killer questions (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kermitthefrog
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I'm gearing up to perform Kolossal Killer for the first time, having recently purchased the original version, and was hoping some of you who are more experienced with the trick might be able to offer a bit of advice on its finer points.

1. Fear number 1: they will say, "very nice. Now let's see that wallet." Assume I'm doing this in a casual setting, not on a stage or anything like that. How do you structure the routine and patter to avoid this demand, or to avoid satisfying it?

2. Fear number 2: The card will be the right one (no "out" used), I will produce it, and they will say, "very nice; can I see the card?" Same question: How do you structure the routine and patter to avoid this demand, or to avoid satisfying it?

3. Fear number 3: The out will be used, and someone smart (I work with Ph.Ds all day) will quickly do a bit of math in his head and announce, I guess you have [the number of cards used in the routine]. How do you structure the routine and patter to avoid this train of thought, or what do you say in reply to it?

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

KF
Doogie
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Kermit,
I too just purchased Kollosal Killer. The manuscript discusses some of the psychology used when referring to the wallet (a quick review will remind you of what I'm talking about). Refering to the "empty" wallet. I haven't had a chance to try this effect yet. Still perfecting some things. I'm going to use bridge sized cards vice poker sized just so I can get them in my wallet without them peeking out. As far as examining the card goes....just a thought, but why not use a dry erase marker instead of permanent ink? That way just sliding it across the table will get rid of the dirty work. Haven't tried that either, but might give it a shot.

Doogie
Russ
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I don't own this trick but as far as fear #1 goes. Know one is going to examine my wallet with out a search warant.

I think I might say something like "then you would find my girl friend phone number".

Russ
"All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" by Robert Fulghum
Dr.Morton
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1. Concerning fear 1-3:
If presented at the right time with the right confidence no one will ask any questions, period. If you feel otherwise you might not be ready to perform this routine.
2. Kolossal Killer or Original KK ?
What did you buy? The marketed "KK" is a gaffed wallet, while the "Original KK" manuscript asks for an ungaffed one. If you bought the booklet directly from Kenton Knepper, you would have gotten Doug Hennings Version of "KK", which would answer most of your questions.
For further ideas you could also get "Killer Konceptions" which adds even more ideas (and has the Doug Henning version included as well).
Hope that helps.
Are there really any smart Ph.Ds out there???
It is not enough to be without thoughts,
one should also be unable to express them.
Jones
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Quote:
On 2002-10-20 03:39, Russ wrote:
I don't own this trick but as far as fear #1 goes. Know one is going to examine my wallet with out a search warant.


I agree with that attitude. I wouldn't use a unclean wallet unless it clearly contained money and credit cards - that's reason enough to refuse anyone.
Asking to examine something so personal as a wallet is an absurd request and should be treated as such.

Ian

Quote:
On 2002-10-20 04:02, Dr.Morton wrote:
The marketed "KK" is a gaffed wallet, while the "Original KK" manuscript asks for an ungaffed one. If you bought the booklet directly from Kenton Knepper, you would have gotten Doug Hennings Version of "KK"


So then, is Doug Henning's version the "Original KK?" I'm a bit confused, I always thought that KK was Kenton Knepper's creation. I am looking to purchase the ungaffed version and need to know which is which.
Please clear this up.

Ian
Dr.Morton
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Kolossal Killer is the creation of Kenton Knepper and it was first marketed as gaffed wallet + instructions. It supposed to be discontinued but there might still be copies lying around.
Kenton himself says he normaly uses an ungaffed wallet and a slightly different routine. Through to demand he published his "Original Kolossal Killer" booklet which is still available. In my booklet was an additional handling by Doug Henning (who had his own ideas for a KK routine) included which as I stated would solve some of your problems but is much more difficult than the original one. Since then, a lot of poeple have contributed to Kolossal Killer with different handlings, ideas etc. These versions are collected in "Killer Konceptions".

I hope this clears things up.
It is not enough to be without thoughts,
one should also be unable to express them.
Kraminator
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Hi Kermit

Its good to have some thought of how the people around will react and what kind of questions they will ask. But fear is the enemy of magic.

Lots of Tricks are living and get the effect because of the presentation. I experinced to have the same problem that people wanna see the pen with the pen-trou-dollar (penetrating) so I now have a simular pen in my pocket, and while handing the dollar fir examination (everybody looks at the dollar) I put the pen in my pants-pocket and take the other one out to examine. Maybe you can have 2 wallets too?

Its unbelivable that people dont really see some of the stuff you are doing, if you do it smoothly and if you do the moves looking natural. I sometimes think: These people must be stupid not to see how it works. Belive me, they are stupid, until buying the trick I was stupid too Smile

Hope this helps a little.
Jheff
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I've had KK set-up in my wallet for quite a few years now and perform it quite frequently. If you read Kenton's presentation and follow it, no one will ask to see your wallet. Just make sure you do use a normal wallet. Remember, nothing magical happens. According to the audience, you just happen to have a card in your wallet. And if it's not an "out" card, they won't ask to see the back. They can see the face and that's enough. (I do this for high school kids -- you know, the tough age -- and even they don't ask to see the wallet.)

Actually, the fear in this kind of thinking is called magician's guilt. Don't think like a magician. You don't need to prove that everything is "clean." Try it and you'll see.

The only comment I get from people who make guesses is that they say I must have 52 cards in my wallet. But then they quickly dismiss that idea. The concept of using fewer than 52 cards to cover 52 cards is one they'll never get. Most magicians don't even "get it" until they buy the manuscript. So don't worry about this.

The Doug Henning version, in fact, is a perfect example of what happens when a magician decides to tackle a great mental effect. Most all the psychological subtleties mysteriously vanish and are replaced by sleights and gimmicks.

Read Kenton's manual again and do it that way. As the saying goes, Hakuna Matata.

-- Jheff
Marketplace of the Mind THE LAZY MENTALIST'S CARD TRICK is now available!!
Agathon
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When somebody asks me to see the wallet I reply as I'm putting the wallet in my pocket "Like I can fit a deck of cards in my wallet." They get that 'I guess you're right and do I look stupid' look. At that point the wallet is out of the picture. As far as wanting to see the other side of the card, don't run when nobody is chasing you. There is no reason to want to see the other side of the card. When was the last time you knew somebody that demanded to see the other side of a building? If people are asking to see your cards then you are telegraphing fear and raising suspician.

Good Luck,
Charles Smile
ralphdean
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This site got me interested in KK because of all the discussion. None of you said this was a bad trick. Many said it was a perfect out for those times when a card is REALLY lost which makes doing other card tricks that much easier.

I hit the local art and wine market and picked up two new wallets. The one I currently carry is 25 years old and shows it. I am going to play with each and see which works best for me.

Thanks for the trick guys (and gals).
kermitthefrog
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Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I'm aware of the importance of confidence and attitude in performing; I was just wondering if there also were pattering details that would help. I know Kenton has some suggestions in the manuscript (which is what I have -- not a gaffed wallet), but they aren't quite my style ("not much in here to bet with, but..."). The Doug Henning variation has other drawbacks of its own, of course.

The most helpful thing to hear from those with more experience using this trick is that the demands I am imagining just aren't made. I'll try to hold that thought!

KF
Lesault
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Original KK has to be my favorite effect when someone asks me to do something and I have nothing with me (I always have my wallet). A use the same method as Agathon if anyone questions the wallet... "Like I could fit 52 cards (hold finger and thumb up exaggerating the thickness of a deck of cards) into my wallet!"
Once when I had to show the back of the card someone exclaimed "Wow! you'd need 104 cards in your wallet if you were cheating!". I love that logic Smile

Lesault
CENDRE
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I've practised for months a bizarre magic routine based on the original KK principle.

I only have 1 advice :

Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
The original KK is not an "effect". It must be done when people are already sure you can "toy with their mind". I mean by that that you MUST have proved your capacity before this technique. It's just "another" test and another proof (an amazing one).

Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
For example, you can use a pseudo-scientific speach about NLP so that your spectators are convinced you can use this technique perfectly. They must follow a logic that make them anticipate the result since the beginning of the patter. By this way, they destroy in their mind the possibility of multiple outs.

Once you have done this, the result of the original KK is out of comment. Because the result is logic. They know what will happen and they even know you can toy with them because you have enought capacity to do this.

Since I use this method, I never had 1 question about my wallet...

See you soon,
Il était une fois...

CENDRE
Paris
FRANCE
Thoughtreader
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The best version is "Kollosal Killer II" which offers the best of all world's, including not limiting choices of suits once you have them down to a color of red or black. Limiting any further reduces the imapct I think. Also, the hip style wallet and not the shogun wallet is prefered too unless you are really thinking and add the Versadex Wallet by Larry Becker to the routine in which you open the possibilites ofr cards even more..

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Canada's Leading Mentalist
http://www.mindguy.com
AB StageCraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
zauber
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To CENDRE (posting on first page):

Come on now! You are constraining KK to some sort of clinical application. That is baloney! So for the rest of you readers that might be considering this effect in your armamentarium --- just do it. KK is entertainment, plain and simple. One DOES NOT require Neuro Linguistic Programming Expertise to present this in an awe-inspiring manner.
"I'm still learning."
-----Michelangelo
Tony Chapparo
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I just got the original KK manuscript and it says you need to use RED backed cards but never explains why.

Did I miss something here??

I don't see any reasoning behind having red backed cards as opposed to any other color.
Tony Chapparo
Joshua Quinn
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Because the writing is much easier to see on a red back.

Quinn
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
Steve Hoffman
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The person who started this thread is a magician or aspiring magician after my own heart, because I too tend to worry about different ways the spectator could challenge me, and I am always looking for ways to get those fears out of my mind

. . . I can truly say however that I've never been challenged with a demand to examine the wallet or the card with KK . . .
However, as to fear #3, I did have one person quickly do the math after seeing the "off by one" and realizing how those words could let me do the trick with just a portion of the deck in my wallet. That person was my 17-year old son, who is an absolute Math & Science wiz!!! (Since it was my son, I was kinda proud of him rather than disappointed. I've never had anyone else come close to thinking along those lines.)

Steve Hoffman
Takoma Park MD
Karl Dellis
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I think KK is a very good effect but really too expensive for what is !

Don't you think ? The idea is clever but yet used by other routine (at least one that I know). And in fact you coul as well does the routine with an other wallet !

More there are severals effects as amazing and as "clean" that KK.


Best regards, Karl
Agathon
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A little presentational tip if you get to "Off by one." Reveal the card to the person that thought of the card first. Their reaction works on the audiences imagination as to something big. Let this build. Slowly reveal the "Off by one" as you say "Well, I was close, in fact, I would say I was dead on." Do this facing the spectator. Get the reaction and then, don't turn the card towards the crowd, but hold the card as you are and turn your whole body toward the audience. Obviously this is not done in a room of 500 hundred people. Give it a try and let me know if you see an improvement in reaction.

Thanks,
Charles Spector Smile
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