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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Another Osterlind thread » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Sven Rygh
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Oslo, Norway.
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Gentlemen;

It has been a lot of heated discussions about TV shows and the "neccesity" of using pre-show work and stooges or confederates for these kind of things.

It hurts me to see that our good and always helping friend Richard Osterlind in these threads has faced a lot of disrespect for his opinions and experiences collected through an entire life in mentalism.

I wholeheartedly believe that the majority of these attacks come from non-, or less performing people and not from serious amateurs, semi professionals or professionals.

I for one can say that all the generous help and advices Richard always has been willing to give me has completely turned around my previous traditional thinking and has made me improve my performing significant.
(I know that for sure. My clients have told me so!)

I know quite a few out here that are just as grateful as I am about everything Richard has contributed with.

I'd be very interested in replies to a couple of questions of that matter;

-How many of you have been personally helped by Richard Osterlind on The Magic Café either in the forums themselves or in private messages and emails.

-How many of you has Richard personally responded to and given advice to."


NOTE;
Please do not turn this thread into another discussion about the use of pre-show and stooges pros and cons.
This is about Richard and the respect for him, his experience and knowledge.

So let's hear it!

Sven
Thomas Rudolfo
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Vienna, Austria, EU
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Hi Sven,

I just can second your post. I already wrote Richard a Mail about how helpful he has been to many of us.

He of course also helped me a lot with his thoughts and advices to improve some routines. Since I could establish myself as a good working mentalist in corporate shows here in VIenna (which is really not easy in such a little country) I honestly admit that Richard's work and advices take big part on this.

So I hope when everything came down a bit and heat is off that he decides to come back to the Café some times.

IMO there are few experienced Pro mentalists who can communicate such honest passion on mentalism and whoms many advices and tips are worth gold. And one of these is Richard.

I want to make clear that with this post I don't want to glorify Richard. That's truly not my style. Instead this is an honest compliment to an experienced Pro who always was willing to share ideas and help all of us.

Just my thgouths and thanks for all the shared thoughts on the Café

Regards
Thomas
Think positive and you'll see, how beautiful your life can be!

www.der-mentalist.net
scott b.
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Definitely one of the more helpful guys on this thread (Must say along with you Sven). Helped me in past pm's and in just casual posts he is made.
Thanks! Scott B.

"I don't know the key to success . . . but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." - Bill Cosby
burgerinc
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Sin City
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I absolutely concur. Regardless how helpful Richard has been to many of us (not to mention selfless in sharing his knowledge and personal act for free) I think there is a lesson that hopefully will be learned here. There are a great many here that can learn to be more respectful. This is supposed to be a forum about magicians helping magicians but all too often a thread turns into a personal snipe or who will be first to correct someone's grammar or spelling. (As to this last comment there is occassionally a funny mistake that might be worth commenting on as long as it does not turn into a personal attack)

Sorry to be a little off topic but I do feel strongly about learning a few more manners. There are those making it a contest of how fast can I p*** off the REAL performer enough to make him leave. This obviously does not apply to everyone who has had a disagreement but there are those that do make me wonder. This is actually not specific to the other thread but in general.

Not to glorify but to get back on topic. As someone middle aged, I never thought of performing before; I had very different career paths. A few years ago I took another look at a childhood passion, Richard inspired me in the mystery arts and helped me pursue a new career. Without his help I do not think I would have made the jump from doing afew effects for friends to leaving a succesful lucrative security blanket. In other words for me it wasn't only the effect or assistance I might receive but his love for the game.

Thank you Richard and thank you Café for letting me rant.
Tom DV
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I am a nobody in the field of mentalism - but I would not be the person I am without Richard Osterlind.

May he think whatever he likes about me, but I am in absoloute awe of him.

Tom.
Scott Kahn
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I second Tom
--Scott
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
Hypnotic Winter
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I owe Richard so much for all he has done for me. Due to all he has helped me with if he was in need I would drop everything to go to his assistance.

H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
rumburak
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I second Scott and third Tom.

Seriously, Richard has an incredible amount of experience and very thought through performances. It is great to have the chance to benefit from his experience.

True, there may be times when different people with other styles don't find specific approaches useful. One can disagree with something. But that does not mean that other people will neither benefit from those opinions.

Yes, it boils down to good manners. Unfortunately, the internet does not always educate the manners to the same extend as the knowledge. This gives a single stupid kid the chance to spoil the fun for dozens of productive people ...
Kevvy
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Some have stated that they do not post at the Penguin forum for similar reasons.

I was pleasantly surprised to see people like Richard, Max Maven, Banachek, etc. when I became a Café member. It is a shame because he definitely has a passion for helping others.

Some people just can't appreciate what they've got till it is gone.
Viano
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I met Rich some years ago. I was not doing Mentalism at the time, but I was impressed with the gentleman. As I moved into Mentalism, Richard and Banachek were my guiding stars. Both are truly gentlemen. I don't presently do any effects directly from them, but most of my present show evolved from the two of them. It is an honor to sit at their feet and listen. I hope neither of them are restrained by tricksters who do not understand Mentalism.

Rich
Drewmcadam
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I have much to thank Osterlind for. I hope one day to meet him, shake his hand and tell him how much I admire him. From what I can follow from this thread, the usual "idiots" have managed to upset the apple cart. Why is it that magic seems to attract these numpties?

For myself, there have been times when I've thought that I could do without all the know-nothing experts. The internet geniuses, who never actually perform, other than for their equally geeky friends, but try to enhance their own reputation by making everybody else look small (And the bigger the "name" the better.)

Thing is, when you look back over the years, these guys have come... and gone. Because they just don't "get it". They're probably on some other forum, dealing with some other topic, and doing exactly the same thing.

The good guys stay, because we've got nowhere else to go!

In answer to the questions posed at the beginning of this thread. ME. Definitely, me.

Best wishes,

Drew McAdam
mdspark
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I second every positive thing that has been said of Richard Osterlind. Some people on here just don't get it. And I am sure what little performing they do shows it.

Mark
davybabybrazil
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I do not know Mr. Osterlind but watching his DVDs countless times and reading his essays ad infinitum- make me feel as though he has been here in my living room actually teaching me.

When I snap my fingers you will say the first word that enters my mind:


Inspirational!
It is hard to believe a man is telling you the truth if you know that if you were in his situation you would be lying.
PsiDroid
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It was not the first time Mr. Osterlind reacted vehemently to others' opinions. If you look back to many other older threads he almost always reacted in excessive and rather insulting ways to many different people. He can be a pro but that does not mean he is the beholder of the absolute truth as some of you worship him to be. And because Mr. Osterlind is not the beholder of the absolute truth,you should consider with an open mind that other pros like him or even better than him don't necessarily share his views and beliefs about pre-show work.
entity
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No one in any of the threads ever questioned Richard Osterlind's contributions as a creator, teacher or performer in Mentalism. He is deservedly held in high regard by many on this forum and throughtout the world of Magic and Mentalism. His output of creative material is prodigious and of a high quality.

I was one of the people who disagreed with some of his comments, and, at his invitation, I tried to put forth my arguments in a respectful and honest way.

I am not a wannabe or a sometime performer. I perform for a living, and have done so for about 30 years. I have earned the right to have an opinion and to share it thoughtfully and sincerely.

Manners are important in all strata of life. They are as important for Doctors as they are for a shoe-shine boy; for the student as well as for the Teacher. Passion does not excuse bad behaviour.

I would ask that we each honestly examine for ourselves the behaviour of the parties involved, before passing judgement. I took no personal pleasure in ending my exchange with Richard in the way that I did, but I felt that it was an honest and appropriate response to the energy that was being thrown towards me and towards many others.

In the end, I hope that Richard continues to post and to reply to posts here, as he has a great deal to offer to the shared discourse.

Sincerely,

- entity
NJJ
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He has personally offered me advice here at the Café and I enjoyed his DVDs. Seems to be a great, down to earth guy.
MentaThought
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On 2005-07-02 00:40, PsiDroid wrote:
Quote:
It was not the first time Mr. Osterlind reacted vehemently to others' opinions. If you look back to many other older threads he almost always reacted in excessive and rather insulting ways to many different people. He can be a pro but that does not mean he is the beholder of the absolute truth as some of you worship him to be.

From personal experience I must concur with everything written above.
Ironically -- as someone who, while enjoying his "magician-doing-mentalism" performing persona (even though it's not my preferred type of mentalism) and who'd previously complimented him in this forum -- I was rather dismayed months ago when, after voting for Banachek's video series (as opposed to Osterlind's series) as being best for a particular purpose, and later expressing an unflattering opinion regarding his spoon-bending method -- Osterlind unleashed what I (and others who subsequently PM'd and emailed me) felt was a rather petulant, unbecoming and ill-mannered rant against me.

Quote:
And because Mr.Osterlind is not the beholder of the absolute truth,you should consider with an open mind that other pros like him or even better than him don't necessarily share his views and beliefs about pre-show work.

Excellent suggestion.
"A good mentalist ... will teach you a miracle because he understands the subtleties ..." -- Banachek

"If this works it'll be BEAUTIFUL!" - The Amazing Kreskin on a stunning effect he performed on his 1970s television series (PS: it worked)
mdspark
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Well, again..thats YOUR opinion and you are entitled to it! I haver re-read the thread in question and simply cannot see where Mr. Osterlind was "out of line" or inappropriately "ugly" with any of his remarks...Passionate? YES!

As generous as he has been...not just on here...but in releasing HIS act with HIS insights of working it in the REAL world...I think he deserves better. ANYONE is allowed to disagree... or indicate that their experience has been different in just as passionate terms...but it appears to me hes was attempting to point out how the ABUSE of preshow work and slick editing ruins OUR CREDIBILITY to our audiences (though obviously I do not speak for Mr. Osterlind). Is this such an extreme position to take??? Apparently some think so... But the real point is...I don't think he stepped out of line at all.
toonomads
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Richard Osterlind has always been generous and helpful here at Magic Café. I know I have learned and improved due to his love of magic/mentalism and openess to everyone that shares those feelings.
mdspark
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P.S.... Perhaps he got tired of "preaching in the wilderness"...
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