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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Jumbo Al Schneider Matrix (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Mediocre the Great
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Rich Hurley
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Has anyone played around with Al Schneider's matrix with Jumbo 3" coins and Jumbo playing cards?

I was playing around with this the other night and I think it has real potential. Has anyone actually peformed this in a jumbo version? It seems like it would work very well in a parlor setting!
Mediocrity is greatly under rated!
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Rich Hurley aka Mediocre The Great!
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Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27084 Posts

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Many of the coin assemblies have been explored using larger coins, even Roth's chink-a-chink. David Roth even had the Tenkai Palm based load for a jumbo coin under the portable hole all set and in use by 1973 or so. The rest of us in NY explored that stuff a few years later. David, sensible as usual went with Silver Dollar sized coins for the Stonehenge Coin Assembly. Some folks bought the game with the giant five inch Penney coin to use as a final load for that stuff, as the Goshman five inch "Chinese" coins are a bit heavy. Peter Samuelson then made his five and twelve inch silver dollars available and another round of folks explored working large. If you want to work "large" have a look at the old trick using figurines, and try using weebles. Smile

Magicians may be amused by large coins. A lay audience is more likely impressed if you borrow a few coins and do the thing using business cards, and give out your cards at the end.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Curtis Kam
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RE: "Jumbo Al Schneider Matrix"

Not a bad idea! Where do I get a Jumbo Al Schneider?


Please, please, folks, I'm here all week, don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress....

Rich, if Jonathan seems underenthused by the idea, it's not so much that the idea won't work (it probably can be/has been done) nor that it won't impress lay audiences (it probably will, they are attracted to large shiny objects) but that the urge to "improve" a coin effect simply by making all the props bigger is pervasive, and something coin magicians have been thinking of ever since there were jumbo coins.

The results are rarely satisfying. See Richard Kaufman's comments about this in COINMAGIC and Expert Coin Magic, and elsewhere. This is not to say that a change of size is not a good effect. Roth, kaps, Kurtz, Goshman, Dingle, and most others have published work in this area. However, when the change of size is not the effect, the simple fact that everything is bigger (but the routine remains the same) is of little consequence.

Given all that's possible, and the many years jumbo coins have been available, only two direct translations to jumbo have ever been published, to my knowledge. Michael Rubenstein's "Jumbo Coins Through the Table" and some guy or guys who claim to do "3 Fly" with Jumbos. As I understand it, Mike's routine was primarily something to show magicians, and I obviously can't speak for the other guys.

Which is my way of saying, it should tell you something that no one has bothered to publish this yet. I salute your explorative spirit, but warn you away from these shores.
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Charlie Justice
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I agree with all thus said, that is unless our assumptions are incorrect and you are actually 15 feet tall...in which case I would gladly pay to see your matrix.
Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
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The BEST Matrix I have seen is done with Quarters. Armando Lucero!
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Jonathan Townsend
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I was not excited about the large coin tricks simply because I have yet to find a compelling presentation that brings the props into some interesting context. I suppose taking out a GIANT closeup pad and doing a few tricks as a very young magician might be cute. And how folks the first trick my uncle showed me. Let me take you back forty years and show you ...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Mediocre the Great
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Rich Hurley
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All great points...

I neglected to say that in the back of my mind, I thought it would be a cute idea to use in a Magic Castle Parlor act. I'll share with you that I've considered auditioning to perform in the Parlor, but I'm mainly a close up guy. Perhaps start off with regular half dollar coins, look at the back row, say, no, let me use these coins for the cheap seats.

Pete I agree... Armando really kills with his matrix! Do you think lay people enjoy his matrix more than say, Dean's Tonight Show Matrix?
Mediocrity is greatly under rated!
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Rich Hurley aka Mediocre The Great!
www.RichHurleyMagic.com
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
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Quote:
On 2005-07-17 12:37, Mediocre the Great wrote:...look at the back row, say, no, let me use these coins for the cheap seats. ...


If you know there are people who might not be able to see the props, then you might want to do routines using props that are more visible.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jaz
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You could show a normal size coin purse, the place where you keep the big money,take four jumbos out.

To me it just don't seem right to use jumbo coins for this.

I'm sure something else like CDs, drink coasters or cards.
Even slices of bread could.. never mind. That might be a sandwich effect.

Carney has a routine in Carneycopia using four aces and two pieces of cardboard called 'Bull Session' which may give some ideas and would be more visible.

The crazy idea of doing a sort of matrix vertically just flew thru my head.
Draw for chalk circles on a blackboard, maybe each a different color of shape, and have them travel. Method? No idea. heheh
Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
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One of the things about 3 inch coins that I have noted... most of them look CHEAP, too shiny, fake looking. Perhaps some other objects would be better.

What if you lay four cards down face up... then use some kind of covers, OK jumbo cards face down... and do a matrix with the poker size cards joining up...

THEN for a kicker? Maybe the Jumbo's which were originally shows to be Kings? Turn to aces and the poker aces turn to Kings (DF cards)??.

(c) P biro esq! Smile
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Frank Tougas
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I think the main problem with jumbo coins is that everyone knows they are not real coins, which means they may be tricked in some way. This could greatly reduce the effect. Al originally used quarters in the matrix routine and has talked about a salesperson who would do the thing with his business cards, giving him opportunity to pass them out to current and potential customers. I think he tells this story on his DVD set. Anyways, jumbo coins may attract too much attention to the possibility that coins can be faked in some way. Everyone knows you can't fake a real coin, right?...what?...stop staring at me...Mom!

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Curtis Kam
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Hmmm, maybe I ought to stop work on my Jumbo set for Dean Dill's "Explosion". Smile
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Al Schneider
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During the last thirty years or so many have suggested, among the many excellent ideas, that I use manhole covers for Matrix. I have worked on it but I keep breaking my little finger nail during the pick up. I'll keep at it and let you know.
Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
mike gallo
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Al, that sounds so cool...where would you get cards big enough and would you prefer red or blue backs?

Mike
Frank Tougas
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Minneapolis, MN
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Good Gawd don't give Penn & Teller any ideas! Smile
"The Giant Matrix of Death"

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Curtis Kam
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same as you, plus 3 and enough to make
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The problem with the "Two Cover, Four Object Assembly" effect is rationalizing the use of the two covers. In an attempt to do so and bring the whole effect to a larger audience, I hit on the idea of using four geriatric nudists as the objects, and two trenchcoats as covers. The audience accepted, even demanded the use of the covers in this context, but sadly, the routine was not as deceptive as I hoped. Yes, one of the nudists "flashed".
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
Larry Barnowsky
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Curtis,
An added advantage to using geriatric nudists is there are many who are dysphasic from strokes so your objects won't "talk" when they're covered by the trenchcoat.
Curtis Kam
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same as you, plus 3 and enough to make
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And palming is a snap because of the reliable milled edge they seem to have.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
Larry Davidson
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Potomac, MD
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In addition to using four geriatric nudists, I suggest that you use a fifth one that's a shell of his former self. That would certainly add a new wrinkle.
Paul Chosse
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1955 - 2010
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Quote:
On 2005-07-21 16:03, Curtis Kam wrote:
The problem with the "Two Cover, Four Object Assembly" effect is rationalizing the use of the two covers. In an attempt to do so and bring the whole effect to a larger audience, I hit on the idea of using four geriatric nudists as the objects, and two trenchcoats as covers. The audience accepted, even demanded the use of the covers in this context, but sadly, the routine was not as deceptive as I hoped. Yes, one of the nudists "flashed".


Aw, Nuts!

Best, PSC
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