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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Well, if the Mackie doesn't sound good, I'll return it. I don't do many shows over 200 people so it should be loud enough, and I can piggyback it. I played some Bluetooth music on another PA and it sounded good, I don't use a lot of music, and I'm not a DJ, and it's not a Pink Floyd concert. Sure it should sound good, but I don't do those high end corporate gigs like some of you do, and I'm more concerned with voice quality. I can also skip the Bluetooth and play through an MP3. If I remember right those Fenders got mixed reviews and don't have Bluetooth and are bigger. I wanted a smaller lightweight system. You can retrofit PA's with a Bluetooth adapter for $30ish.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On May 22, 2015, charliecheckers wrote: I believe if I am not wrong he ended up going with the JBL EONs 15" and loves them. I think he made a wise choice - useable for small or large applications, for the kids performers you can use just one, and you still get real sound reinforcement, not just amplification. It's built in mixer with adjustable e.q., proper crossover, amp included and the ability to expand with others as needed. It's also lightweight, plus you can always for larger gigs patch into a major sound system with confidence and without embarrassmant. |
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Amazing Magic Co Inner circle 1711 Posts |
The Anchor Beacon, which also includes built in wireless microphones, operates on a battery and rolls right on and off with a one minute setup. This can be a little pricey but has plenty of power for any venue.
Dan. |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
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On May 27, 2015, Mindpro wrote: Thanks - great suggestion. |
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
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On May 28, 2015, Amazing Magic Co wrote: Really? I highly doubt that.
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
LOL
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
I started laughing at "operates on battery."
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
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On May 29, 2015, Mindpro wrote: I had never heard of it so I looked it up. For nearly $2000 I wouldn't go anywhere near it. But to each his own. |
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Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts |
Last night I had gig at an upscale retirement home, about 50 people, strolling close-up magic then they wanted me to do a stand up rope routine for the whole room then introduce the executive director.
This one came about kind of last minute, so I was not sure what the PA system situation was. I took my Happie Amp just in case... I got there and they had a Bose system, the one with the tall skinny tower. And they had a wireless handheld mic but no mic stand. If only they had or if I had a mic stand I could have just used their mic. I patched my Happie Amp in through the ipod plug in their Bose and it got the job done. I know this story makes most of you cringe, you may now commence with giving me an online lashing. The system I am most interested in buying is this Yamaha StagePas 400i http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StagePas400i There is also the StagePas 600i but I don't think I need that much. I will still need to invest in a mic, I will have to find a reasonable headset mic or just continue patching my happie amp in, or bite the bullet and get a Countryman, but then I would also have to buy an amp, correct? |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
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On May 29, 2015, Tim Friday wrote: Tip - I always carry a mic stand in my van, even though I use a headset mic. That way it's handy, even for shows where I don't bring my own PA system and headset mic. There have been a couple of times where I'm glad it was there. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
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On May 29, 2015, Tim Friday wrote: The sentence that included "Happie Amp", "ipod plug" and "Bose" made me cringe, yes. If just "getting the job done" is enough for you, then that's great. An "upscale retirement home" probably doesn't expect much more, or have any expectations at all really. But think about how you described this experience and put it in terms of you going out to eat. You go to TGIF with the family. The steak is overcooked, but edible. Some customers are wearing cut off t-shirts and smell of body odor. The kids got chicken nuggets and juice boxes and had fun drawing on the place mats. The server was rushed and rude, but brought everything to the table. The price was reasonable. The experience was fine. It got the job done. Now you go to an upscale restaurant. The food is beyond your imagination, everything is perfectly proportioned and cooked to perfection. The server is elegant, attentive, and kind. The silverware is sturdy and the napkins are heavy duty. The lighting is soft and warm. Everyone is dressed well. Which experience do you rave about to your friends/family? Of course you rave about the upscale restaurant. Even though you can only afford to go there once a month (or once a year), you going to talk about it. No one is raving about TGIF. Everyone knows that TGIF will put food in your stomach and "get the job done". How do you want to be perceived? This is the difference between "Let's get a magician" and "Let's get Tim Friday." And it's a HUGE difference. |
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Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts |
Yes I agree with everything you have shared Brian.
Originally they contacted me and said they wanted strolling close-up magic, it wasn't until the afternoon before the gig they called me and said they also wanted me to do the rope routine. Honestly I forgot to ask about details of a PA system on that phone call. It seems like a lot of my first two years of performing professionally have just been learning how to respond to requests and quotes, the more I take the better I get and know what to expect and what details to ask about and be prepared for. I have a show in the middle of June at an amphitheater that could be up to 300 people and I plan to have a PA system and be ready for that one... |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
Tim, in your situation I probably would have either: plugged my mic directly into their system and made the best of it, or for only 50 people doing 1 rope routine, just gone the old school theater route and projected without a mic. Have you taken speaking classes or, better yet, singing lessons? Learning how to breathe and project by taking singing lessons is something I believe every professional should do.
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Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts |
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On May 29, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote: I have not taken speaking or singing lessons or any vocal training, but would like to |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On May 29, 2015, Tim Friday wrote: The Stagepass series is Yamaha's low-end portable system just as the Passport is Fender's. Both will do a minimalistic job with thin/tinny response. Do not expect good, processed sound. Yes, it's better than a happy amp or a battery operated speaker system, but barely (only in the basic technical sense of the term) qualifies as a true "sound" system. However to answer your question, if I am understanding your correctly, no you would not need by am amp as the Yamaha system has a powered mixer. Powered means it includes the power amp. So no you would not need to buy an amplifier. No lashing here, but understand while this may be better than a Happie Amp, this is still basically on the same Romper Room level and not a professional sound system by any true definition. Anything that boasts "battery operated" or a "Just Sound Better knob" is not what most would be referring to when they say professional sound system, equipment or sound reinforcement. As I stated earlier, these are just sound amplification. So if you are using cheap, thin, tinny or distorted sound/signal, this will only amplify the distortion, tinny sound, feedback or signal being processed. These cheap "systems" are designed for performers whose interest are not good sound reproduction which is why the descriptions for these systems always focus on non-sound or technical related features such as portable, lightweight, battery operated, sets up in seconds, fits into your glove box, weighs only 8 pounds, "Sounds Better" knob, hard case, portable, all-you-need, all-in-one, multiple inputs, NO EXTERNAL ANTENNA to get broken, built-in, use two speakers for even more sound, and other such non-sound related, ridiculous, supposed features. In reality these are all signals saying how cheap, inexpensive and most of all non-professional this equipment is, these are NOT features or benefits to a true sound system. Those falling for these unprofessional features, are likely in reality not professional performers in the true sense of the word. As I say in my course, trainings at at my agencies - Professional performers, use professional equipment, plain and simple. One of the first signs of a professional is their equipment, |
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Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
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On May 31, 2015, Mindpro wrote: Mindpro, I have to disagree with you here. I pride myself on having some pretty good knowledge about sound reproduction. While not formally trained (i.e. I haven't gone to school for sound engineering), I've always been picky about sound and did lots of self-study over the past 25 years. I've even run sound for several small bands. While I am in total agreement that the very small battery-powered PA systems don't reproduce sound well, a system like the Yamaha StagePas 400i might do a fine job for the right size venue. (I haven't tested one out so I can't say how good the sound is.) I have owned a number of sound systems over the years, from a 100-watt Peavey PA system with 12" speakers in the early 80s to a system with two 15" powered speakers and a decent size mixer in the early 2000s. What makes a sound system professional is that it sounds good in the venue it is used in. That's why I once owned 5 different PA systems at the same time. They each had a specific use. (You really don't want to take a mixer and 15" powered speakers to a birthday party!) Yes, a big high quality expensive sound system may cover everything from large rooms to small rooms with good sound, it's going to be overkill for those smaller venues. It's also going to be a lot to carry. Tim didn't mention what size a venue he's looking to cover but if he isn't trying to cover a gymnasium with bad acoustics, the Yamaha may very well give him fantastic sound. You can't write off a system because it is lower priced and smaller. If he's not using music in his performances, then the sound requirements are less demanding. In the past 10 years, the types of shows I do regularly have changed. I used to do everything from illusion shows to birthday parties. Now, I no longer do illusion shows and mostly do family and kid shows. The venues are typically smaller so good sound in a convenient package is what I need. I settled on two PA systems: 1.) For up to 250 people indoors and for outdoor shows where there is no access to electricity: Carvin StageMate (now discontinued) which is a 10" battery-powered self-contained PA system. (For those less knowledgeable about sound, a 10" speaker has a 10" woofer and a tweeter. The larger the woofer, the better it can reproduce bass.) I use a second speaker with it for more coverage. 2.) For birthday parties and smaller libraries: Roland CM-30 PA system. These are compromises. The Carvin sounds very good for its size. The sound is not as good as the JBL Eon G2 10 speakers I used to have but it certainly isn't bad and I can use it outdoors without access to electricity. (It certainly isn't powerful enough to cover 500 people at an outdoor venue but under two hundred is well within its range.) Since it is self-contained, it sets up very quickly. That is a factor for a picnic, private party, etc. When I used to use the larger systems, I needed at least 30 minutes just to set up the sound system. As a performer of family shows, I don't have that kind of time to devote to setting up the sound system. The Roland is the best sounding small system I have found and I have tested many, including the Mackie SRM150. It reproduces music very well (as long as you're not trying to cover too large a room), is small enough to sit on my performance table and allow me to play music during my birthday party shows. A larger system may well sound better but is totally impractical for a birthday party. If I am at a venue that is larger than my Carvin can cover, I make sure a sound system is provided by the client or I would rent a system (something I haven't yet had to do.) I'm not saying there isn't a difference between larger expensive sound systems and smaller, lightweight sound systems but it doesn't mean the smaller system is not professional. That's too broad a sweeping statement. Another factor, quite frankly, is how much you are being paid for the show. If I was being paid $2,500 to perform for a corporate banquet (like I used to with my illusion show), then I would not show up with my Carvin system. It wouldn't match the level of expectation of the client (although I doubt many would notice the difference.) For a $350 family show for a holiday party, a Carvin StageMate with a second speaker is quite professional. The bottom line is that it all comes down to your music and voice sounding good. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Hey Michael, great to see you here. I think in many ways we are saying the same or similar things slightly different. As I've stated in other the related threads offered earlier in this post, I was creating the perspective of what professional sound is, how it differs from basic amplification (two hugely different things) and how in professional circles, some of this lower end stuff that many THINK or label as professional is not truly professional in professional circles. In one of the threads there was an example of a guy who walked into a theater or festival (I don't remember right now), walked up to the sound company and onsite soundman and crew who were told he had is own "professional" system. Once there they were supposed to confer as to whether to use the performer's system, the sound company's system to patch his into theirs.
My point was and still is if an entertainer walked into such a professional situation, performance environment or venue with a Happy Amp, Passport or similar, in professional circles they would be laughed at. What they would be presenting would not be considered professional sound equipment. Just like years ago when a guy would walk in with a Sears or Radio Shack system. They may have thought they were "professionals" and the sales guy At Sears or Radio Shack may have told them so, but in true professional circles they would be laughed at. That was the point I was trying to make. Go to the kids section here and even the FX section and the talk of these systems is as they are professional sound systems. Sorry, they are not, regardless of performance markets or application. A real professional sound systems would be a professional sound system in all performance markets. I agree with you on many points. I too have five sound systems. Yes, the can be used for different reasons and purposes. But two points. First the average entertainer here is not or likely can not afford to buy five sound systems for different venues and applications. Secondly, if you have one decent professional sound system it could and should cover all of your performance, market and venue needs and requirements. It was this that rpierce was originally inquiring about and the differences in such systems. He purchased a $2000 system for one performance environment, but soon realized it was at all appropriate for his next performance environment. De detailed the many problems and elements he was facing. Again with a proper professional system (just one, not five) and the proper knowledge, use and application he would be (and now is) covered for all performance venues except maybe a concert hall or a major venue. Yes, it may be a bit much for a smaller gig in someones home, but again, he can only take only one powered JBL EON 15 and it is still quite mobile, and can be used in even the smallest of performance situations and settings. My point was differentiating between the two levels, perceptions and qualities of sound systems and differences between basic amplification and the true purpose of a sound system which is sound reproduction. it just like the kids performer that somehow believes if he can get the kids yelling, cheering and screaming that he is killing in his performance. Any professional performer knows this is absolutely the farthest thing from the truth. He believes it is the real deal, he believes he is the man and his material is killing them. When in reality professionals know it's not. It's likely a facade for lack of talent, experience, performance skills, audience management skills and so on, and likely the parents, faculty or whoever has hired them may very strongly feel otherwise. If no one explains this to them and the differences they simply continue on with this false information and misbelief. It was this that I was trying to identify and explain. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Well said, Michael. It is no such thing as XXX or ZZZ sound system is not professional. It all depends on what it is being used for. The venues I use my 1 or 2 Happie Amps in works well. It took me some time to experiment with my other sound systems too. You will never know unless you try.
I still like the information you gave me several years ago about giving power to the transmitter's receiver using AA batteries when no outlets are available. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Yes, of course...anyone at any time that opposes a Mindpro post gets the "well said" congratulatory post and total agreement from Dynamike in his continuing an ongoing effort not to understand and to anyone about anything that disagrees with me.
Yet as he says, if you have nothing good to say... |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On May 31, 2015, Dynamike wrote: Any to correct such incorrect information, yes there most definitely is, sorry you are wrong. |
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