|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5..10~11~12 [Next] | ||||||||||
Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
I think it is very worthy for performers to become somewhat knowledgeable about sound. When choosing a sound system, you should compare how they actually sound rather than just comparing specifications and price. When I finally settled on the Roland CM-30 for birthday parties and small libraries, I had tested it against other systems to see how it compared. I went into a Guitar Center with my Roland CM-30 and my minidisc player (obviously, this was several years ago before minidisc disappeared from the U.S. scene) and I asked permission to compare sound systems. I was particularly interested in seeing how it compared to the Mackie SRM150, which was more expensive and far more powerful. What I found was that the Roland reproduced music noticeably better. (Most likely that is because it has a larger speaker than the Mackie.)
I did the same with the Fender Passport P250 and the JBL Eon G2 10. The JBL blew the Passport away but was significantly more expensive! (Each Eon speaker was about $500 at the time.) Ironically, I compared the JBL Eon G2 10 (which has been replaced with a newer version) to the JBL Eon G2 15, the G2 10 had a cleaner sound. The 15 could reproduce bass better, of course, but the 10 was perfect for my needs. (The 10 has a 10" woofer and the 15 has a 15" woofer.) It just reinforces my point that you just need to compare them. It's also important to understand that you have to compare systems in a venue that matches where you'll use it. A lot of sound systems sound fine in a small venue but don't do nearly as well in a larger venue. (My pair of G2 10 speakers were nowhere near loud enough nor powerful enough when I performed in a 20,000 square foot ballroom!) I think Mindpro and I agree on a lot when it comes to sound systems. The key point is that just because a sound system can amplify your voice and your music doesn't mean it does it well. |
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Right and Michael also makes a great point of which I agree and of course is an underlying element to this entire topic, which is one should seek, research and purchase a sound system based on knowledge, real information, and specific application, needs and use, NOT because it's what they've seen others use. Each performer's interests, needs, markets and individual show production components are different and can even vary even within the same performer who offers different shows for different markets and venues. It should not be monkey see, monkey do. It should not be what everyone else is has or is doing. It is and should not be one size fits all.
It's really more about the education and understanding that will help you most to determine your exact needs and what system can best meet and exceed these needs. It was this that charliecheckers was referring to about the rpierce post. He was seeking input and education to make the proper choice for him, his markets and his needs. But this not not overshadow the point of what is true professional sound reinforcement and what is not. There is a difference (many differences actually). |
|||||||||
BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2015, Dynamike wrote: Many people find that iPod ear buds work well. If one of my recording studio clients wanted to listen to their mix and I gave them iPod ear buds, they would laugh, then cry, then demand their money back. Just because something "works well" in a certain environment (like a kids show where the kids don't know better and the parents don't care) doesn't mean it's professional. It's one thing to say, "This is the best quality I can get for the money I'm willing to or able to spend, and it is adequate for my clients." It's quite another to say that a piece of consumer equipment is professional. It's not up for debate. Your opinion is wrong, entitled to it though you may be. |
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Yes, it is amazing how many performers and "professionals" are not even aware of the difference between consumer and professional lines.
|
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I am one of them. That is why I have people for that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2015, Mindpro wrote: Michael, no matter what he thinks, I still know your post was "well said." I can tell you have a lot of experience with sound systems. |
|||||||||
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote: I have been entertaining at a lot of family shows for many years. The kids want to hear the entertainer clearly. If the crowd was in a basement and the sound is clear to each and every individual using a small sound system like a Happie Amp, that is going to be professional to the families. If there was a glitch in the sound system where it was giving feedback noises or echoes, the kids and adults are going to be uncomfortable knowing the sounds are disturbing and being presented unprofessional. Imagine bringing an expensive large sound system into a basement filling up a lot of tight space. With the volume turned up slightly, but still being very loud. Children can start to cry or cover up their ears because of the pressure it is putting on their ear drums. The client is going to tell you to turn the sound system off. That is why I use my smaller sound system for inside house parties and my larger sound system for larger venues. "Professional" applies to how the entertainer puts everything together, not for the items he uses. A lot of people misunderstand that. The same implies to there is no such thing of a good magic trick. It is not the trick that entertains the laymen, it depends how the entertainer presents them. A professional magician can put together a great Miser's Dream routine using an old coffee can. An amateur magician can purchase an expensive Miser's Dream bucket from a magic shop, but still will not be able to present his routine as well as the professional magician using the coffee can. Someone can buy an expensive sound system not knowing how to use it. They might think "gain" means "volume." Imagine that person having an outside party of 20 people at a park with no electric outlets. The performer plugged the power cord into a generator with a twelve foot length cord. The noise of the generator is able to be just as loud as the sound system. If the same performer would have purchased a battery powered Happie Amp, with simple knowledge to operate, it would sound just as clear to the same outside audience. A lot of performers are under the influence of saying, "I got an expensive sound system. I am now professional because I will use it at everyone one of my shows." A professional entertainer knows how to work all of his venues. Usually they have just one market. But some have several markets. It depends on each venue. I perform at kids, adults, families, outside, theater, fairs, festivals, small venues, etc. That is why I ask several questions in advance about the crowd to my client, so I will know what sound system and accessories to bring to the venue. An entertainer putting together a great show with cheaper items is just as professional as a performer using higher priced items. |
|||||||||
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On May 22, 2015, charliecheckers wrote: Tim, I agree with Charlie. There are a lot of professionals in the F/X forum. The microphone plays a strong role to in this too. Everything from A to Z is covered in the F/X forum. They know more of what they are talking about when it comes to sound systems and accessorizes. |
|||||||||
TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 1, 2015, Dynamike wrote: Well said Mike. Sound is not about ‘looking’ professional. It is about being heard clearly by the audience. A true professional does what needs to be done without all the overkill to please the ego. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
|||||||||
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Thanks, Tom. I am like Michael when it comes to learning sound systems. I learned from experience, not education. Common sense is more important than book sense.
Before you are great, you have to be good. Before you are good, you have to be bad. Before you are bad, you have to try. |
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 1, 2015, Dynamike wrote: Lots of people without book sense think this. Best to have both. It does not have to be either or. How long does one spent being bad prior to becoming good? Just curious.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Seems a long time with no end in sight.
|
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Here we go again confusing fact from opinion. I've been to the FX quite regularly, most activity there is about how to do things on the cheap with consumer line equipment, mostly from kids magicians. Not what a pro would use to set their knowledge, education and barometer as evident here.
|
|||||||||
charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 1, 2015, Mindpro wrote: This is a fair point. My suggestion was offered based upon my perception that the FX section would likely offer more and better advice. The fact is, I have not been there in some time. Back when I spent more time there, I learned quite a bit from Dan McLean's posts. http://www.magicroadie.com His posts/advice is now a bit dated, but I would think his thoughts on speaker placement and wireless microphones is still good advice. I thought this thread might get moved to FX, but I am glad it did not, as there was important discussion around differing viewpoints performers have with respect to considerations of sound equipment based upon the image it portrays. I freely admit I did not know or consider such things when I purchased my equipment. I think image is always important, and one should consider not only the venues they currently perform in, but potential future ones. |
|||||||||
TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I never go there but I just visited the FX section and I consider Michael and a few others in that section about as professional as you can get.
I even saw a couple folks there that have worked with major rock star bands. But hey, maybe they still high on the drugs. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
I guess we see different things. I spent time going back in four pages deep and saw little other than what I described above. Michael does have some good points and so does Arthur Steed. There is a post in there about Arthur and my days working on the toad touring with The Mamas & Papas and other bands in the 80's and 90's. He also has some good info as did Dan McLean both in posts and on his site. But other than a few highlights it all about consumer stuff for the most part. I'm not seeing it.
|
|||||||||
BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
People seem to think that we're saying that the name brand or what the speakers physically look like is the thing that makes you "look" professional. That's not what we're saying.
The point is that consumer level equipment is built for exactly that: general consumers. This equipment will have lots of cut corners that significantly diminish the quality in favor of affordability and portability. And I say again: so long as you understand what you're dealing with, the limitations of both the equipment and your budget, and what your clients expectations are, then that's fine. There's nothing inherently wrong with a Happy Amp. But when you insist that your consumer level equipment is professional, you're no longer voicing an opinion. You're simply wrong. It's not professional. It's not meant to be. The manufacturers themselves don't believe it's professional. |
|||||||||
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 1, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote: Repeat. It is not the equipment. It is how the equipment is handled. |
|||||||||
Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts |
I will give some more info on what my needs are and maybe someone could give me a more specific recommendation.
1) I need my voice to be amplified so that an audience of possibly up to 300 people can clearly hear and understand me 2) I need the quality to be clear, no electrical buzzes, pops, squelches or feedback 3) I need a system that can also play music, at times just for the music, and at other times the music along with my voice which will be speaking This is what I need the system to accomplish for my business. Now some more info on where I perform: I am a local/regional performer. Lately I have been performing a lot of kid shows, so I need a system for the kid and family shows. I also perform at evening parties for adults. This could be a corporate party or a party at someone's home. I do perform corporate parties locally. These are my main customers where I would use a PA system. There a few others that have come up, with the internet anyone could possibly contact me, there is a chance I could get a request for a trade show and might need the PA system then as well. So as you can see I am in need of a versatile system. Since I am just a little over 2 years into my business, I am hoping I can get a good quality system and a wireless headset mic and receiver for an investment of $1,000. I can go a little higher but would prefer to keep it around $1,000. In regards to how customers perceive me based on the type of PA system I have... this is an interesting point. At one level it seems similar to judging someone based on the kind of car they have. I realize it is deeper than that because sound quality is an important consideration. And I can certainly see how the Happie Amp does appear as and performs as a cheap, low quality system, but it got me started. Thinking back through all my clients, I don't think any of them would think less of me or be offended if I had the Yahama StagPas system or even a Fender Passport system. I believe that 90% of people view these as reputable and recognizable brands. Would they meet the requirements that I have listed above? As for the sound engineers who I might happen to meet at a gig and would be knowledgable at a level that is being discussed here, I guess they would think less of me. Who else would even know? A professional speaker? But are these even the people who would be paying me? Finally, I find it interesting that really hardly any systems have been recommended. I am open to recommendations. The only ones that seem to have been recommended are the JBL, and maybe some of the ones Michael Messing mentioned. Almost everything else the majority of posts has shot down. So based on my needs and level, what do you recommend? |
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 1, 2015, Dynamike wrote: Repeat this is just wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » PA equipment for a big gig (38 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5..10~11~12 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.08 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |