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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » About The One Ahead Principle... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

daffydoug
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I have tended to shy away from the one ahead principle a lot, because of one little hang up. That happens to be the need for the spectator to cooperate while you "fish" for the neccesary imformation for the next step.

Now granted it really should not be a problem, but to me any effect that stands or falls on the willingness of the spectator to cooperate by releasing secret information has a certain risk factor inherent in it. In other words, this is not 'sure fire"

For example, the scenario is that I have, let's say, forced a playing card, or I know the spectator's license plate number, so I'm ready for number three, but now in order to get there, I have to "read the spectator's mind",(twice) then after I do that, I have to ask "What was the flower that you were thinking of?"

She may very well say "You're the mind reader...you tell me!" (refusing to cooperate by divulging the information) So now I'm stuck! I can't continue the effect until she cooperates, so I am at her mercy.

That is not really an enviable position to be in.

Are my fears unfounded? Is there a right and a wrong way to ask her (or him) for the information without giving the tiniest hint that I am fishing, or that I am totally dependent on her cooperation to not end up with "egg on my face?"

Perhaps the answer lies in great acting abilities? (Acting super confident while in reality I am more than a little apprehensive.)

I sure would appreciate some light on this subject.

Yes, I have used one ahead in my act, but not extensively because I have been uncomfortable with the situation as described.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
weepinwil
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I do not think the principle is best for everyone and the method is not always trnsparent. Each person has to decide for themselves. I have chosen to limit its usage as well.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
daffydoug
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You hit upon the right word that I was feeling in the back of my mind. "transparent"

If the method and the reason for your asking the spectator to speak out the information is transparent, themn they likely will not do it, if they have a bit of a mean streak in them.

So the crux of the question comes down to this. How do I ask for the information, which is indispensable to my succesful completion of the effect, and yet at the same time make it seem as if it does not really matter if they give it to me or not? What a dilemna! How do we make our motives and methodology not TRANSPARENT to the astute spectator?.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Paul h.
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Hey daffy,

I always do a one-ahead with a pad/pen or chalkboard/chalk, so that when you try to get the info from them, it appears that you are just confirming what you already knew. You are doing something concrete--writing down and then checking your psychic channeling for accuracy.

As you gaze at the person you are fishing for, use your best acting and as you tell them "I have it", and write down the info for the other volunteer as you store in mind what they will say to you to confirm their thought.

Hope this makes sense for what you are asking. Maybe you are asking something deeper here, yes?

Best,

Paul h.


Posted: Aug 1, 2005 10:32pm
---------------------------------------------
I was just giving your post some more thought...

What I love about this method is that you only have to know one piece of the info to look like you read two or three volunteer's minds.

Even if they do figure out/assume you just wrote there info down, they should not be able to figure out the one or two you used your other method to gain info with. Obviously, using your best stuff for two "reads", and just asking and writing the third person's for free is a great thing to do if you can pull it off.

Regards,

Paul h.
Sven Rygh
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I had to stop and think for a moment to find out if I ever felt the One Ahead Principle as transparent...and my answer (to myself!) was a loud NO!

As the matter of fact, I use that principle constantly one way or another, and consider it a one of mentalism's best!
Of course the presentation and audience management here as always is the critical important points.

As to
Quote:
"What was the flower that you were thinking of?"
She may very well say "You're the mind reader...you tell me!" (refusing to cooperate by divulging the information) So now I'm stuck! I can't continue the effect until she cooperates, so I am at her mercy.


A such thing honestly never happened to me, and I actually don't know why it should.
I say at that point: "I wrote down my thoughts on what you were thinking of on this paper slip (or slate or or whatever)" and put it down here. Please tell me what it is"
I have found that as long as I already commited myself with that, it is not an issue to get the spectator to reveal that.

I also vary the way to get the neccesary information, I use both a force and a peek, and both works very well.
Except for the great classics like Annemann, Osterlind, Cassidy and many others have created great routines using this principle

Sven
Decomposed
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I agree with Sven on this one. I use this constantly and it is very powerful. Usually I start with the Hoy Book test and then personalize the rest (4th Dimensional variations). Even if someone suspects, rationalize your way out of it.

I usually address the "writing" from the get go. I inform them the writing is an extension of their thoughts and/or there is no backing out and they are committed.

Additional dribble that works for me on anything I do is "stay with me on this, it will make sense later." Funny thing is, later comes and noone has ever brought this up. Nice sidetrack and leaves them to concentrate on the effect.

Hope this makes sense (just look at the time::)
D.Paul
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Hi,
I don't think the One ahead is transparent its just the way you use it. As a prediction they will back track and work out the only logical method, which is you wrote something down after each time they named there selection. You don't have to be a that smart to work that out, sorry but its true as is with a lot of predictions. How ever using the One ahead as a part of a message reading system then its far less transparent, for instance, Name/place routien, fourth dimensional telepthy and other routiens like that.


Hope that helps
Darren
David Numen
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Center Tear, N*** W**t**g, Switches, Cold Reading Stock Lines, One Ahead, Peeks...

What do they have in common? They can all be devasting when used correctly.

They can ALL be obvious in the wrong hands.
Mark Roberts
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Quote:
On 2005-08-02 03:54, Candini wrote:
I agree with Sven on this one. I use this constantly and it is very powerful. Usually I start with the Hoy Book test and then personalize the rest (4th Dimensional variations).

Quote:
On 2005-08-02 03:54, Candini wrote:
I agree with Sven on this one. I use this constantly and it is very powerful. Usually I start with the Hoy Book test and then personalize the rest (4th Dimensional variations).

This is a good point Candini. Using a Book Test instead of "Pick A card" can make the routine far more mystifying certainly. But to tackle daffydoug's point, there other ways to cover up the weak points in the routine

I think that the One Ahead in it's basic form can be quite transparent. i.e. "Think of any word. I'll write it down. Ok What did you think of? Hmmm interesting..."

In that form, I would say that the whole thing can definitely be easy to backtrack!

The whole secret is in the routining.

In order to put the spectators off the scent, everything must have a logical purpose. Personally, I think that Cassidy's work is outstanding in this area such as in the Three Envelope Test(4th Dimensional Telepathy). No-one is ever asked "What did you think of?" and everything follows a natural pattern.

In appearance, you write down your prediction and hand it to a spectator. You open the envelope to read what the spectator thought of and you then ask the spectator who holds your prediction to read it out and prove you were correct!

All the weak links in the routine have been covered! Perfect!

Another ruse to follow is shown on the Banachek DVD in that one of the choices is visual. This way you don't have to ask what the spectator thought of as, unknown to the audience, you can plainly see it!

I absolutely love the One Ahead. However, as in all these things, the routining is paramount.

Marcus

BTW Bartlewizard. As usual...You are spot on!
sjdavison
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Exactly - well put Bartlewizard.

I have yet to see the Cassidy routining, but Richard Osterlind also demonstrates the 4th dimensional telepathy routine perfectly also in ETMMM, shwoing how good the one-ahead is if done properly.

I currently use a psychological card force on the first person. I then offer an interesting test, and have the spectator and another call out the cards they are thinking of at the same time - sometimes they same, and it is astonishing. If not, I then know what they are thinking of for a mis-read. I may be out in my prediction, but I have two strong revelations to build on that. Let me know what you think - I like the fact that you need no other props. (That said, I love the idea on Richard's blog)

Simon
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Mark Roberts
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Quote:
On 2005-08-02 07:03, sjdavison wrote:

I currently use a psychological card force on the first person. I then offer an interesting test, and have the spectator and another call out the cards they are thinking of at the same time - sometimes they same, and it is astonishing. If not, I then know what they are thinking of for a mis-read.
Simon


Nice thinking Simon Smile

Other psychological Forces could be used, too!

My personal preference would be the circle/triangle force using Luke Jermay's scripting from Touching on Hoy. There's more chance of scoring a hit first time.

Using a psychological force keeps us away from using props and sits comfortably with the rest of the routine.

Thanks, Simon.

Marcus
sjdavison
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Welcome! The only problem I have with the circle/triangle force a la Touching on Hoy, is you need to be SURE what you misread - if they did not think of the force designs, and you read it out as such, the method would be exposed.

By the way, where in Nottingham are you? I was at uni there, graduated last year.

Simon
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bevbevvybev
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Agree about making at least one of the choices visual, but why not make ALL the choices visual? That way everyone can SEE the choices without anyone having to say them out loud.

Also, if you actually label each slip with their name in some way personalises each prediction (as in Osterlinds 'Change Of Mind') so there is no reason for them NOT to tell you what they were thinking as it seems you have already committed to each prediction.

And for Gods sake don't use a card force, and then ask two other people to think of two entirely unrelated object or names or whatever. Give the whole routine a purpose and a theme.

Don't just do a one ahead routine thinking method is effect. It certainly isn't in this case!
Mark Roberts
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Quote:
On 2005-08-02 10:02, bevbevvybev wrote:
Agree about making at least one of the choices visual, but why not make ALL the choices visual? That way everyone can SEE the choices without anyone having to say them out loud.

And for Gods sake don't use a card force, and then ask two other people to think of two entirely unrelated object or names or whatever. Give the whole routine a purpose and a theme.

Don't just do a one ahead routine thinking method is effect. It certainly isn't in this case!

Hi Bev,

Good advice Smile

This "pick a card" business was always where the original premise fell short for me. It took me a while to find a routine I was comfortable with, but once the routining and handling are worked on, the one ahead can certainly create a remarkable effect.

I'm not aware of the Osterlind routine. Although Banachek does a similar thing where he numbers business cards to match the original choices.

I, personally, like to use business cards as they can be kept by the spectators afterwards.

I certainly think that some kind of labelling is a good convincer though.

Marcus


Posted: Aug 2, 2005 10:54am
-----------------------------------------
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 09:14, sjdavison wrote:
Welcome! The only problem I have with the circle/triangle force a la Touching on Hoy, is you need to be SURE what you misread - if they did not think of the force designs, and you read it out as such, the method would be exposed.

Hi Simon,

I can hear what your are saying here, but if the scripting is done well, the force very rarely fails. And there is adequate time difference between the choice and the revelation that it is difficult for the spectator to backtrack to what you actually said to him at the time.

If you PM me, I will give you the actual scripting that I use.

Quote:
By the way, where in Nottingham are you? I was at uni there, graduated last year.

Simon

I'm in Beeston at the moment, which is University City Smile

However, I'm moving over to Arnold at the weekend.

Congrats on your graduation.

Marcus
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