We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Up in smoke! » » So where CAN you do fire effects? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
daffydoug
View Profile
Eternal Order
Look mom! I've got
13753 Posts

Profile of daffydoug
With our society the way it is these days, that is, everyone being so aware of terrorism, just exactly WHERE can one do effects that utilize fire without fear of being frisked by cops, or even worse being tossed in jail?

Seriously, it's getting so you can't (bleep) sideways without someone looking askance at you. I would like to use fire effects, especially in public places, but I'm just a little aprehensive when considering today's present day attitudes toward anything that hints at terrorism.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
weepinwil
View Profile
Inner circle
USA
3233 Posts

Profile of weepinwil
With non-smoking poicies and strict insurance and fire marshall rules it is increasingly difficult to use fire in public places. I had to cancel the fire portion of an act recently because the place's insurance would not cover it.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
MopKrayz
View Profile
Elite user
423 Posts

Profile of MopKrayz
Not all countries have the same overall policies.
not all enviornements have the same policies.
here in malta we can work with fire without much problems in most hotel rooms.
daffydoug
View Profile
Eternal Order
Look mom! I've got
13753 Posts

Profile of daffydoug
Quote:
On 2005-08-04 08:50, weepinwil wrote:
With non-smoking poicies and strict insurance and fire marshall rules it is increasingly difficult to use fire in public places. I had to cancel the fire portion of an act recently because the place's insurance would not cover it.

That sucks, because the fire effects are often the BEST ones in your act! I really hate the place this world is coming to. I truly do. All it takes is a few terrorists to screw things up for us all.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
weepinwil
View Profile
Inner circle
USA
3233 Posts

Profile of weepinwil
I agree, the fire effects are the most exciting part of most of the effects. I like to add one or two along the way to wake up the sleepers if any are there. One of my favorite close-up is a torn and burned restoration on the point of a pin. It is so visual and looks so real. Had to give it up becaue most restaurants frown upon it.

Always check in advance. Or maybe just do it and beg forgiveness afterward.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
daffydoug
View Profile
Eternal Order
Look mom! I've got
13753 Posts

Profile of daffydoug
Sounds like it takes all the fun out of working restaurants.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Martin Joseph
View Profile
New user
UK
70 Posts

Profile of Martin Joseph
Weepinwil,
I was just wondering if the effect you mention you dropped is from John Bannon (I think it was called 'Shriek of the Mutilated' or something similar)? If it is, it's a real shame, the effect is a beauty. Seems strange that it should be looked down upon when really there is little fire (just the small flash) and no smoke. No huge danger either really, if we are honest. I suppose though it's easier to tell someone not to do it in the first place then go through a long messy court battle in today's where-there's-blame-there's-a-claim culture.
You're also right that it's often easier to get forgiveness after than permission before.
Kind regards,
Martin Colclough.

Quote:
On 2005-08-04 19:04, daffydoug wrote:
That sucks, because the fire effects are often the BEST ones in your act! I really hate the place this world is coming to. I truly do. All it takes is a few terrorists to screw things up for us all.


Daffydoug,
If the current circumstances created by the threat of international terrorism only impinge upon your life in such a marginal way as you have to drop an effect using fire, then perhaps it's time for you to count your blessings?
Kind regards,
Martin Colclough.
daffydoug
View Profile
Eternal Order
Look mom! I've got
13753 Posts

Profile of daffydoug
I do count them. Believe me, I do.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Mad Mat
View Profile
New user
Norwich, Norfolk, England
90 Posts

Profile of Mad Mat
I don't see how insurance cant cover a bit of flash paper, that cant burn a thing, you burn it in your palm and it doesn't hurt
Martin Joseph
View Profile
New user
UK
70 Posts

Profile of Martin Joseph
Quote:
On 2005-08-07 09:09, daffydoug wrote:
I do count them. Believe me, I do.

Daffydoug, re-reading my message to you it struck me as prehaps appearing quite curt and rude. I didn't intend it to be and hope you didn't get that impression mate, it was just an observation on life really.
Best,
Martin Colclough.
Slim Price
View Profile
Inner circle
1935 - 2006
1326 Posts

Profile of Slim Price
From experience I can tell you flash paper CAN burn you, and can start other fires.
Slim Price
sanscan@tds.net



"I will never bitter be, as long as I can laugh at me!"



"The people who were dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music"
Harry Murphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
5271 Posts

Profile of Harry Murphy
Frankly the indoor open flame/fire use regulations have little or nothing to do with terrorism. They have evolved and become stricter and stricter because of individuals using fire in their acts didn’t have a clue about safety procedure, burned down venues and killed people (Great White tragedy is a good example). In many cases, the laws get stricter because people get stupider!

Fire Marshals and fire codes are designed to protect the public from the untrained, uncertified, and just plain fools.

Flash paper, for example, has caused fires that have maimed and seriously injured individuals. A blowtorch/flame thrower gimmick was used stupidly and ending doing thousands of dollars worth of damage to a home (I suspect that family will never hire another magician for their kid’s birthday party).

Indoor venues have to carry insurance to protect themselves and the public. Insurance companies limit what they will pay for. Often the performer can get his/her own insurance rider to cover his act and the venue will accept the performers rider as the insurance for the show. What this means is that the venue’s insurance is more or less void for the performance and the performer’s insurance is in effect. I’ve done this in the past when the money was worth it. I couldn’t afford that kind of expense on a bet now!

Many outdoors venues don’t like open fire effects. However, the outdoor venue is about the last place where fire effects can be performed with the least hassles.

I have several fire eating friends (folks who make their living performing fire eating/breathing acts) who work exclusively outdoors! Most are street and festival performers. One has never had an indoor show!

The answer your question “where can you do fire effects?” is fairly simple. For the professional performer the answer is - almost nowhere!

The part time performer and the performer that does maybe two shows a year for friends in the home can still get away with a fire bit (and risk burning down the house!).

Frankly, fire is going the way of the cigarette act. It is becoming history. I know that some performers will slavishly stick to their guns and persist in not updating their acts because “they like what they do”. In fact, I know of a school assembly performer who would not give up his flaming dove pan and lost his whole season as a result (I got the season with a safety show that had no fire!).

Fire is beautiful, fire is dangerous, and fire can enhance a show. I love fire; I do a fire-eating act (outdoors). But fire is very unwelcome in most venues. Build you act to fit your booker, your venue, and your audience not to please yourself.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
gsidhe
View Profile
Inner circle
Michigan
1726 Posts

Profile of gsidhe
I am a fire performer who adds magic as an unexpected element to my shows (Kind of oppositte to most of the people I have run into here. I.E. Adding fire to spice up a magic act). 60% of my shows are outdoors. We have a couple of local venues that have permits, and do a lot of work there, but for the most part, outdoors is it.
Even then you can have problems. My advice for anyone that wants to use a large amount of fire in an act, or (Like I do) bases their act around it, is to make friends with your local fire marshall. They can do you a world of good with getting permits or permission for both indoor or outdoor venues. Before you go to them to talk over your act, I would highly reccommend going to http://www.bearclawmfg.com/safety.html . These guys have one of the best fire performer safety programs I have seen, and fire marshalls like to have a safety program laid out for them the first time you talk to them. Be prepared to demonstrate the effect for them to see if they approve.
Technically speaking, you can perform any fire you want outdoors at a park or at a beach or in a backyard (Unless there is a no burn law in effect at the time, so basically, if you can bar-b-q, you can perform fire)It just helps when the police come over to see what you are doing if you have something from the local fire marshall to show them.
My two cents.
No matter what you do though, be sure to check out the bearclaw site for safety. It has kept me burning safe and healthy for a long long time.
Gwyd.
MajesticWizard
View Profile
New user
Lakewood, WA - USA
57 Posts

Profile of MajesticWizard
You would need to ensure that everyone is safe during the trick. When Copperfield did the Haunted masion trick, I have no doubt that he got permission to do the pyrotechnics, and they were more than likely well equipped for any emergency. That trick was awesome, but it could have been seriously painful. It really looked like he was blown away by the fire. I thought he had sustained injury...until I saw him standing there.
- Shawn

"Explore your world, its waiting for you".
Caveat Lector
View Profile
Elite user
493 Posts

Profile of Caveat Lector
First and foremost you should have an insurence policy for your show. If you are a working act and you don't have any type of liability insurence you are going to get caught with your pants down eventually. There is a company that I use that insures magicians and other types of acts for 2 million. The cost per year is $180, it will be the best money you ever spent. The site link is http://clownsoftheus.com/. These people are great and they even cover fire acts, so you can't go wrong. This however, does not mean that every venue will let you perform with fire. But it might ease there minds when you can name them as addtionally insured. The venue itself and the local fire codes will always be your first hurdle to jump, it sometimes helps to call them and talk to them about what you are planning on doing. A little shmoozing never hurts when it comes to doing a show.
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
www.underworldent.com
www.myspace.com/johnshawcomedymagic
Nell
View Profile
Loyal user
Germany
265 Posts

Profile of Nell
Thanks for the insurance link. It's something to look into as insurance is a necessity nowadays for a ny performer.
"A trick may be very good...but...the illusionist must be better than the trick." -René Lavand
daffydoug
View Profile
Eternal Order
Look mom! I've got
13753 Posts

Profile of daffydoug
Quote:
On 2005-08-10 09:52, Harry Murphy wrote:
Frankly the indoor open flame/fire use regulations have little or nothing to do with terrorism. They have evolved and become stricter and stricter because of individuals using fire in their acts didn’t have a clue about safety procedure, burned down venues and killed people (Great White tragedy is a good example). In many cases, the laws get stricter because people get stupider!

Fire Marshals and fire codes are designed to protect the public from the untrained, uncertified, and just plain fools.

Flash paper, for example, has caused fires that have maimed and seriously injured individuals. A blowtorch/flame thrower gimmick was used stupidly and ending doing thousands of dollars worth of damage to a home (I suspect that family will never hire another magician for their kid’s birthday party).

Indoor venues have to carry insurance to protect themselves and the public. Insurance companies limit what they will pay for. Often the performer can get his/her own insurance rider to cover his act and the venue will accept the performers rider as the insurance for the show. What this means is that the venue’s insurance is more or less void for the performance and the performer’s insurance is in effect. I’ve done this in the past when the money was worth it. I couldn’t afford that kind of expense on a bet now!

Many outdoors venues don’t like open fire effects. However, the outdoor venue is about the last place where fire effects can be performed with the least hassles.

I have several fire eating friends (folks who make their living performing fire eating/breathing acts) who work exclusively outdoors! Most are street and festival performers. One has never had an indoor show!

The answer your question “where can you do fire effects?” is fairly simple. For the professional performer the answer is - almost nowhere!

The part time performer and the performer that does maybe two shows a year for friends in the home can still get away with a fire bit (and risk burning down the house!).

Frankly, fire is going the way of the cigarette act. It is becoming history. I know that some performers will slavishly stick to their guns and persist in not updating their acts because “they like what they do”. In fact, I know of a school assembly performer who would not give up his flaming dove pan and lost his whole season as a result (I got the season with a safety show that had no fire!).

Fire is beautiful, fire is dangerous, and fire can enhance a show. I love fire; I do a fire-eating act (outdoors). But fire is very unwelcome in most venues. Build you act to fit your booker, your venue, and your audience not to please yourself.


Well, no indoors,..no outdoors..that just about covers it all, doesn't it? appears my hunch/observation was right on target.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Christopher Williams
View Profile
Inner circle
Portsmouth, UK
4444 Posts

Profile of Christopher Williams
Though some may find it funny and others wont, I did at the time but am not sure now, but my friend bought 4 books of flash paper and was playing with an idea we came up with. He ripped a piece off and lit it, then went to throw it up in the air, and on the downward motion before throwing up, the piece caught onto the 4 books and they set a light, whcih the set his close up mat on fire and singed his eye brows and facial hair. At the time it was scary, then moments after we were laughing, but it really was dangerous. Flash paper isn't a toy and shouldnt be used too much inside
www.magicman13.co.uk

Copies of the limited edition 'MindPlay' still available
Brian Turntime
View Profile
Special user
671 Posts

Profile of Brian Turntime
Yup, as mentioned, the Great White fire became a conflagration-- and tragedy--in mere seconds.
------

Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died. - Steven Wright
daffydoug
View Profile
Eternal Order
Look mom! I've got
13753 Posts

Profile of daffydoug
Quote:
On 2005-08-31 14:00, Christopher Williams wrote:
Though some may find it funny and others wont, I did at the time but am not sure now, but my friend bought 4 books of flash paper and was playing with an idea we came up with. He ripped a piece off and lit it, then went to throw it up in the air, and on the downward motion before throwing up, the piece caught onto the 4 books and they set a light, whcih the set his close up mat on fire and singed his eye brows and facial hair. At the time it was scary, then moments after we were laughing, but it really was dangerous. Flash paper isn't a toy and shouldnt be used too much inside


That's not funny yet at the same time it is hilarious! Now let me tell you about the time I caught my hand on fire.....
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Up in smoke! » » So where CAN you do fire effects? (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL