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weapon Inner circle I am Emran. I have, 1328 Posts |
Has anyone ever made packet tricks sold in magic shops or online like The Web, Skinner Monte, Twisted Sisters for example, at home instead of actually buying the set..maybe you was feeling too cheap..or you felt like it wasnt worth spending money when you can do it yourself for cheaper?
Eternity by Emran Riaz (Gimmicks + Download) An IMPOSSIBLE prediction of ANY number, ANY word, literally ENGRAVED in a medallion they've been holding THE ENTIRE TIME.
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/12181 |
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RevJohn Inner circle Oregon City Oregon, Oregon 2473 Posts |
I have tried once or twice, but when it comes down to card stock, professional printing etc, I have found that my time verses the 10, 20 or 30 bucks it costs doesn't equal a good deal.
Oh, and because the ones I made SUCK. John |
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Reis O'Brien Inner circle Seattle, WA 2467 Posts |
I've made several, but not because I was cheap... well, okay, I'm a little cheap. Not too cheap to buy the effect but too cheap to buy another set when the first one wears out.
My set of Twisted Sisters got pretty ratty looking, so I made another set, but that was thanks to a couple of cards from a special assortment deck. I also made another NFW set when that one started getting old. I don't see a problem with it if I originally bought it, paid my dues to the creator, so to speak. I do think it's in poor taste to make your own, say, after checking out your friend's set or something. But then again, who's going to stop you? |
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magicbern Inner circle Hong Kong, China 1220 Posts |
I find it unbelievable that memebers of the Café are so unethical with this thread. IF all magicians think in a similar way then who will support the creators of these effects? The net result would be that we as a magic community would suffer. I find it unacceptable that some of us won't even pay for effects that they use either to entertain their friends or to earn money with!
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DaveM Special user Germany 788 Posts |
Which brings up a point I´ve often wondered about. When someone markets their effect, such as NFW for instance, how do they get reimbursed? Do they get a small percentage of each unit sold, OR, get paid a nice advance and that´s it?
I would imagine that it falls into the second category if I were to guess. I´m all for making replacements AFTER first purchasing the effect. But, if the magician was only paid an advance to market their effect, he or she will see no monetary difference whether or not someone pirates their effect. Wanna see something really sickening....go on one of the P2P networks and type "magic" in the search engine. You can find everything from trick explanations (ala Penguin) to scanned in books/lecture notes....to complete videos. Making replacement cards is the very LEAST of the piracy problems the creators face. Just my $.02 Dave |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
Doing it for the reasons Weapon described (too cheap,didn't feel like buying) are not generally acceptable. Making sets for the reasons Reis described (replacement,customization) is acceptable to most. That's the impression I have gotten from reading 5000 threads like this and from speaking to people that are respected within the magic community.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Steranko New user UK 89 Posts |
What do you expect when your told you buy something for the secret but nearly no effects come with extra cards?
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magicbern Inner circle Hong Kong, China 1220 Posts |
Why should effects come with extra cards? if you run out then do the ethical thing and buy refills from YFD!
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Reis O'Brien Inner circle Seattle, WA 2467 Posts |
What is YFD?
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Suave Dan Special user Calgary, Alberta, Canada 656 Posts |
Your Favourite Dealer
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Roger Kelly Inner circle Kent, England 3332 Posts |
There's some good points raised here. I don't feel particularly guilty at replacing the gaffs for "Twisted Sisters" and "Ultimate Three Card Monte" et al from the likes of companies such as CardsbyMartin since I have discovered that you can get them. I am happy that my originals, and a couple of others since, were purchased 'ethically' not to mention the word-of-mouth advertising for others to do the same.
Ebay and other internet sources provide an ideal opportunity also to purchase 'ethical' originals at much cheaper prices than your 'favourite dealer.' I know that last comment is going to irk some - but hey, that's the way of the world folks - I am the customer and I'm going shopping at the cheapest place! There's nothing unethical with that Just for the record and before some sharpen their knives, I did contact Jon Allen some time back to ask if he would mind if I did reproduce, (for my own purposes) the ocassional "Double Back." Let's face it - its one of the easiest to do and I'm sure Jon realises that. He replied ever-so-politely in the affirmative - but at least I asked. However, it would be too time intensive to ask permission from everyone. But if you're doing reproduction to sell on - well, that's another thing and I, for one, would not sleep comfortably at night. But it happens! |
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Airborne Ranger New user 68 Posts |
I always buy the trick once - even if I know how it was done - and after that replace my gaffs by doing them myself or someone like cardsbymartin.
I just feel better that way. One thing that does bug me is something like Skinner's Monte. If you want replacement cards you have to buy the entire trick again at full price. |
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Roger Kelly Inner circle Kent, England 3332 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-12 21:40, Airborne Ranger wrote: Not so Airborne! CardsbyMartin does them in bikes and tally-ho's. I also seem to recall someone on here saying that you can get replacements from the publisher too. (ie without the instructions and wallet etc.) Cheers RK |
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Partizan Inner circle London UK 1682 Posts |
Unless there is some sort of patent or obscure copyright then refabrication of materials is acceptable.
magicbern, your views are out of line with the rest of your countrymen. Hong Kong is notorious for cheap replicas of many items.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain |
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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
One of the problems is that it's impossible to get replacement cards for gaffed effects without also paying the premium for "the secret." When you practice a lot, cards get worn, and then they don't fit in with a performance deck. So of course it's ethical to replace them in this manner.
And of course it's unethical to just want to make them because you pulled the explanation off of a P2P. What I'm curious about is the ethics of whether or not it is cool do make gaffs yourself for effects that you figured out by seeing it performed. I mean, if an effect isn't good enough to fool me, and I know how it is done, is it unethical for me to make the gaffs to do it? Or am I still obligated to pay the creator for an effect that I figured out? After all, without actually purchasing the effect in question, I am merely coming up with my own method for how it might be done. It may or not be the technique used in the commercially available routine. So am I obligated to pay the inventor in this situation, when I've figured it out myself and don't even know for 100% certainty that it is in fact the same method? Doesn't it seem reasonable to make my own gaffs in this situation? |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
I have no problem making my own, as long as I bought the original and never sell the ones I make. I should say re-make as I want to gear it more to my style.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
Every magic store I buy from says, "When the secret is told, the trick is sold." Once I pay for the secret I feel it is my option to choose to make replacement cards as long as I use them for my own usage and not to market it or reveal it. Sometimes I may take a close-up trick and print it on jumbo stock to use for stage visibility. Other times I may want the card to say something other than it does for a custom effect. I see this as adapting the effect for my purpose. If I can't do that then I don't need the effect.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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love2laugh Veteran user 374 Posts |
I think it is o.k. to use Roughing Spray to create certain effects otherwise they probably would ban the distribution of this item. I do feel a sense of obligation to purchase the original item before making my own. An example is Monkey in the Middle which I purchased but did not like the cards that came with the marketed item. I wanted to use Jokers rather than Aces so I needed to make my own. I actually knew how Monkey in the Middle worked prior to purchasing the item yet I felt obligated to buy the secret. It is out of respect to the magicians who create these effects.
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magicbern Inner circle Hong Kong, China 1220 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-13 17:16, Partizan wrote: I dunno if that's a compliment...not everyone in Hong Kong agrees with pirated goods. Also, I doubt if Hk is the only place 'notorious' for illegal goods...try not to paint everyone with the same brush! |
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wolfsong Regular user 190 Posts |
P2p?
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