Thanks Mike. I think the problem is that too many people use david's routines just as david performes them. For me I find that wrong. David is david but he is not ME nor is he YOU. Every performer must read the books and take with it the mere ideas and concepts that david puts forth.

Then take a step back and find out how you can take what you learned and put it to use for you so that it fits YOU and what YOU do and is unique to your personality on stage. That is what makes you creative and not a magic clone.

Kyle

Kyle is right, for instance, David's Miser's dream si different than how I do it, but in my routine, there are similarlities. I developed my routine before I saw Davids.

If there is a direction I want to go I will review all my tapes and DVD on others who do it and then, sit doen and write how I want to do it. Consult my database of one-lines, jokes and puns, select comedy props that will go with it, or develop some based on it, and put it together.

Hello:

I think Kyle is right on about this. I have to say that for the most part, I'm not a big fan of David Ginn's more recent stuff; I think that "Professional Magic for Children" is his best work. I find his routines too wordy with too much build-up/introductory remarks for my taste. I generally like to get right into the routine...quickly.

However, in going back over some of his routines, I noticed that I do like some of his premises. So, I'm trying to tweak some routines, eliminating a lot of the talk that I dislike, making them less "jazzy" and stripping the routines down. For instance, I like his "Test of Manhood" routine for the arm spiker, but thought it was much too long for me. So, I'm reworking it and think I've got a winner.

Ron

I would not buy anything from David Ginn! He just got started in magic a few montha ago and knows nothing about working with children. ONLY KIDDING.....Ginn's stuff rccks when it comes to working with kids. Take all of the money out of your bank account and buy everything he sells!

I think the key thing here is to learn and realize that any magic book or video or DVD is a learning tool. Use it to gain knowledge and skills. But do not buy it just to steal a routine and perform it exactly as you see it.

Just because it works for David and fits David's style, does not mean it will fit your style or your own personality. I have seen too many folks just take his routines and do them exactly word for word how David does it. That to me does nothing for you as a magician.

You are becoming a clone of someone else. You are not growing your magic or learning who you are as a magician. Take his information and learn his tips and figure out WHY his routines work or play well. Learn to disect what he does and then take a step back and take those new found tools and make them work for you in ways that fit your performance style.

I think the important thing about David's work is that he has learned to realize what children find funny and what entertains them. Thet is the golden key. He knows that children enjoy the journey you take them on more so then the actual effect itself.

You will also realize that in every one of his routines he tends to use some powerful principles of children's magic that we can all use and work out for ourselves in various ways:

- Storytelling: He tells unique stories that fit a certain theme. The kids love stories and live in a world of imagination all the time. For them stories help them to relate better to things.

- Look no See: He employs this principle so that the children see something funny or not right long before he sees it himself. Children love to feel empowered by proving that they know something or see something before an adult does.

- Magician in Trouble: He uses this principle a lot as well. Here is the basis that the magician has messed up an effect or is not going the right way. In the end it can be the child who solves the problem. Children like to know that even adults can have the same problems and troubles they have and so they relate better to this and find it funny.

- Physical comedy: David emplys this at times so that a spring snake lans on him and he wrestles it or a wand hits him in the nose. Various small quantities of physical comedy can be very funny to children.

- Empowerment: David likes to use this in routines where he will allow himself to not get the trick right but it becomes the child who solves it and saves the day by making it work. This is great for children because it empowers them and makes them feel like the magic happened because they did it themselves. This can be a very powerful tool.

- Dress Up: Kids do like to pretend and use their imaginations. David builds upon this by often times dressing the child or helper up in various outfits or comedy hats etc. Children love doing this and it helps to have the fun or to use their imaginations better in the telling of the story being presented to them.

- Comedy props: David loves the use of comedy props and comedy wands. Too kids, they find them funny and unpredictable. They become, in a way, a cartoon coming to life. The comedy wand falls apart is funny to kids. Or a wand that turns into a fishing pole. It is unexpected and funny just from what it looks like visually.

There is a lot more, but this is what I like to learn and gain knowledge from when I read david's books or his routines. I am not there to steal a routine or to do it like he does. I am there really dicsecting his routine and learning WHY does it work? How does he get the kid's to laugh at certain times? When does he employ certain routines in his show to get the pacing right?

These are the questions and learning tools I try to get from his work or anyones. It becomes powerful tools and building blocks for creating my own unique routines that will work for me, my style and my target audiences.

I then know that I am growing my magic in new ways and that I am learning to be creative myself by coming up with routines that fit my own character and unique performance style.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Kyle

2 cents worth?
Kyle, You would get carpal tunnel if we gave you a dollar to work with!
very nice analysis of Ginn, and kids work in general.
Thanks for the post.

Thanks again. I just hope that some of my thoughts on Ginn's work and on children's magic in general are of help to someone else. I strive to help where I can and to share insight even if it may just be only my opinion on the subject.

I think the important thing is to really understand WHY David Ginn gets the reactions he gets from the children instead of disecting his routines and just doing them like he does. You learn so much more if you simply study the principles behind what it is he is really doing, and learning to apply these principles to your own creative routines.

I hope that some of my thoughts above might shed some light on some of the principles I see david use a lot and that I have learned to apply myself to a lot of what I do in my family style shows.

Kyle

Professional Magic for Children is excellent. I really enjoyed the Live Kidbiz videos (my kids liked them a lot)and also the Kidbiz book. One that hasn't ben mentioned which I found very good for ideas is Magic they Love to See. Nice foil paper tear which is even easier to do nowadays due to the availability of foil sheets (no initial tearing required to get into it).

Jim,

It is great that your kids enjoyed them to. If you have not done so already. I would conduct a test. Have your kids watch David's show or shows and just stay in the background and out of the way. Just let them watch as you observe.

Then keep track of the responses the kids do. When do they laugh? At what times do they clap or go wow? What is David doing at these moments when the kids react and how often are they reacting?

Because you have kids, you have a gold mind of an opportunity to really study exactly what about the routines are the kids really reacting to. It may not always be what we magician thinks it is.

I do always strive to learn new magic effects for my kid's shows and I try to broaden my magic knowledge base. But now-a-days, I find myself studying and learning the pyschology of my audiences.

By this I mean I strive to video tape all my shows or watch other entertainers perform. Then I really study why and how the audience reacts and at what times they do so? There really is a pyschology about it and about why kid's laugh or why they smile or clap. You start to really understand some ways in which to get these reactions and cause them to happen in your own performances.

One thing I realized early on is that I tended to go too fast and I was not getting much reactions from my audiences. Then it dawned on me that it was NOT because my routine was bad, it was because I was not giving my audience enough proper timing to have them respond. I was going from one sequence into the other and my audiences simply did not get the chance to react because I was not giving them the time to do so.

It is little things like this that you really can learn and gain a ton of knowledge from that can make a world of difference in your children's shows.

Kyle

You make some great points Kyle. My boys are older now, but I have a daughter that just turned 4. I can remember vividly having the boys ask to watch one of the Kidbiz tapes over and over. They loved his Axtell Drawing Board routine. This just proves what a great trick it is because DG's performance is very basic. In fact there is no conversation by the drawing, just funny noises. They also really enjoyed when a youngster went on stage and made funny expressions/reactions and such. Seeing a peer in a funny situation made them howl. The tapes drive home the fact that kid shows are more about fun and entertainment than "strong magic".

These are very important thoughts. Having several of David's books and DVD/Videos has been helpful.
One resource that should be considered is the Komedy Kidshow Klinic. This three tape set gives you three different styles - David Ginn, Samuel Patrick Smith & Steve Taylor, (the three Skip mentioned).
I have found "inspiration" not "imitation" from how these guys perform readily available "tricks" (some that can be fabricated yourself) and turn them into routines.

peace,
phill

Phill has hit the monkey on the head (clang clang clang!) If books and guides were set aside once perceived as outdated, the Tarbell and Bobo series would have been packed away years ago. Perhaps, some of Mr. Ginn's material is "dated"... so, this is where your creativity and ingenuity should take over. Barry Mitchell, Sammy Smith and Steve Taylor have all created killer, modern routines using principals taught by David Ginn. His name is one that we all recognize for a reason. Don't glance at a routine and think "Been there - done that". Think "How can I make this work for me?" Originality is the key to fame and success. To quote Barry Mitchell...AGAIN...STOP thinking like a magician and START thinking like an entertainer!

:o) Skip

Jim:
Thank you for the kind words. I think you gain so much more when you really look away from the actual magical effect and start studying more of what is going on, how is the audience reacting and the pyschology around what it is that is happening on stage.

Phil brings up a few GREAT points.... "Inspiration and not Imitation." That is brilliant and is so true. If you really discet what it is Davis and sammy and others do, you really learn that it is not so much the trick that makes them a success. It is the art of taking that trick and developing a personal routine that fits their own style and personality and that is geared and so tuned into what the kids already enjoy.

The fact of the matter is that they are all really great at understanding just what kids react to and why? Perfect example is Sammy Smith and his bunny hat routine. There is very little magic there at all but man do those kids LOVE him and LOVE the rabbit through out that entire routine. Sammy understands that kids at that age love using their imaginations and he really ties into to silly bits of business to create a routine that the kids remember and have fun with.

Skip is also 100% correct. What these books and videos should be are study guides for inpsiring you to learn the prinicples you can take and adapt to create your own killer magical routines. Learn to look at them and not copy them. Learn to understand why things work so well and the principles behind the magic and then apply those prinicples to your own routines and go out there and test them out for yourself.

Kyle