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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Prediction Vs. Mind Reading... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

poire
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Hello, here's a topic which might interest you. I'd like to know which you find the stronger, or more successful, revelation of unknown information: as a "prediction" or as "direct mind reading". There are some great prediction effects out there, but I think I favour the "direct" approach. A prediction seems more like a trick to me, whereas to pretend not to know, then "find out" the info seems a lot more like real magic. I may be wrong... perhaps you can convince me otherwise!
AllThumbs
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I believe that in most cases the "direct mind reading" approach appears a bit stronger. However this does not mean predictions should not have a place in your repetoire. Its important to present a variety of things.

It really depends what you are trying to get out of a particular effect. For example if you are 'using body language/NLP/5 Senses to create a 6th' as your cover, to demonstrate how you can influence someone you might do it as a prediction. If you are demonstrating how you can read body language etc. then you'd do a bit of direct mind reading.

To me, personally, predictions do always seem more 'like a trick', but I doubt the layman usually makes such a distinction.

If I perform something and it is perceived as a trick rather than a prediction or mind-reading (etc) then I go back and review why this was the case and try better next time!

Regards,

Kris Sheglova
The above is all rubbish, except that which you chose to believe
DonMarco
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This is a remarkable debate worthy of astute remarks from some of the "big guys" here in the Café. I hope they will chime in.

my two cents, for what they are worth, is in terms of predictions...less is more. I'm sure we've all embraced a headline prediction or two and garnered great publicity from it, but let me add this. All thumbs makes a great point talking about your "Cover" in other words, do you use "power of suggestion" to reason your predictions? If so, and you predict that someone will think of a particular number, color or even a word, well I think that's better than predicting the sum of five three digit numbers or a word for word newspaper headline. The more complex the prediction, the more it will seem like a trick. It is entirely possible (and I know many of us who do this) to suggest a particular color and have the spectator name exactly that (banachek's psychological subltleties will help you out with this as well)

The same, I guess, could be said for direct mind reading.

One caveat here...perhaps the question we should all be asking is: what effect will be the most ENTERTAINING? Of course we all have different goals as mentalists and this just reflects mine. I may be on a completely different page then some of you here, but that's just my own little take on the whole deal!

"Good luck with alllll THAT." -Jerry Seinfeld
"Imagination is the Only Reality"-- Marquis de Sade
Drewmcadam
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In my opinion, predictions ALWAYS need a pseudo-explanation. Ideally, I find that geting the participant to use their intuition to discern what I've already written down (and getting it SLIGHTLY wrong) makes them look like the star while removing the "heat" from what actually happened ie a prediction.

Much better when the audience ask the participant, rather than me, How did you do that? Along with Derren Brown, I would have to say that if the audience ask me how I did it, then I've failed somewhere. (I mean you wouldn't ask Eric Clapton what the trick is, would you?)
Paradox
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I don't know---I don't know . . .
It seems to me those of us who object to predictions AS predictions may be exhibiting a case of "Mentalist's Guilt".
I mean, what's so hard to believe here? If a mentalist can read thoughts, etc. , why can't he predict the future? As Doug Dyment says, market analysts & meteorologists do it all the time & no one burns them at the stake . . .
I used to do a routine of three effects which were ALL predictions. They increased in order of difficulty and impossibility of fulfilment as I went along, and the program always went over very well. I called it "The Predictable Future", after Dr. Spencer Thornton.
DonMarco
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Another thing to think about is Banachek's Prethoughts. I know there has been another thread thru here somewhere about the strenght of each individual effect in this manuscript...but basically speaking, here is a mentalist "set" full of a handfull of prediction effects. It is all set off rather nicely with Steve's "Lincoln" patter. When presented properly, this could have your audience members talking for days.

I must agree with Drew though. Only why must we mention the wonderful Derren Brown in EVERY thread on this board! I mean, you would think he has revolutionized mentalism or something! (sounds of overwhelming sardonicism gushing...)

Don Marco
"Imagination is the Only Reality"-- Marquis de Sade
Chris A.
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Quote:
On 2002-10-29 00:42, DonMarco wrote:

I must agree with Drew though. Only why must we mention the wonderful Derren Brown in EVERY thread on this board! I mean, you would think he has revolutionized mentalism or something! (sounds of overwhelming sardonicism gushing...)

Don Marco
Agreed. I'm officially dead bored of hearing about DB in every post it seems... Smile
AKA Chris A.
Keepin' the Funk Alive
Thoughtreader
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Unless you are performing "Hurling the Headlines" or making predictions as in "Soothsayer", it is not as strong as other mentalism.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
Canada's Leading Mentalist
http://www.mindguy.com
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Mahlstrom
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Predicting something too outrageous screams "trickery". Knowing a number or item they are going to select is still believable, lottery numbers are not.

I also feel predictions work better at the end of your show, when you have already established your abilities.

Just my thoughts,
-Mahlstrom
Brash
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Predictions lack the immediacy and power of "direct mind reading"
Karl Dellis
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I would prefer say to audience that often the mentalist don't forecast anything or don't read in their mind. But he has abilities to take control of their mind, to drive them to think or make what he wants.

ei : i don't forecast or don't mind read that a spectator think to the king of spade. I say i make the spectator think about that card...

In my opinion this presentation seem to be better because it looks really different of magic. It looks more scientific, more real.

Best regards, Karl
poire
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Yes, like Derren Brown.
Drewmcadam
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I predict that the DB person is going to come up again in another thread somewhere!
Brash
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Just one problem with the "coercion" or "control" approach. It leads the participant very close to the actual method of many prediction type effects.
Sid Mayer
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Predictions can be very strong (and great sources of favorable buzz) if you predict something of interest to your particular audience. That is news headlines for reporters, sales results for businessmen, etc.

Sure, they know you can't really predict these things ... but you DID somehow. Maybe, just maybe, you do have have a bit of a power.

Yes, you'll get asked if you can predict lottery numbers. A good answer to that is "no."

Direct mindreading, if your participant management falters, leads equally surely to, "Okay. Tell me what I'm thinking right now." Sometimes, okay most times, if I'm feeling surly, I might answer, "Oh, I didn't notice that you were."

You have heard about "suspension of belief." That's not it. It's all about creating suspension of doubt.

At least, I think so.

Sid

About that ubiquitous DB person ... have you noticed that there are two of them. I wonder if they are both evil twins?

Sid
All the world's a stage ... and everybody on it is overacting.
Paradox
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Yes, doing predictions at the end of your show is more effective than at any other spot in the proceedings.
Years ago, when doing the closeup room in the Castle, I borrowed a dollar bill that someone put in an envelope & kept till the end of the performance. At the end someone else opened another envelope that sat on the table thru everything, only to find a prediction of the serial number of the bill I'd borrowed--with one digit wrong. Very effective.

Oh, another thing. The phrase I've always heard used is "suspension of DISbelief."
And when someone says "Tell me what I'm thinking", I concentrate for a moment & say "You're thinking I CAN'T tell you what you're thinking", which. at the least, gets a giggle or two, and at the most is quite often right . . .
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