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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic...at a moment's notice! » » Chris Angel card through bus window (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2005-09-15 12:42, raphlo2 wrote:
As much as many of you may hate to admit it, Cris Angel and David Blaine are the future of magic. Nobody wants to see a Doug Henning special on TV today. People are looking for what's extreme. And in our craft there's only so much we can do to create that feeling. A couple of camera edits is a small price to pay I say to keep magic alive and in the limelight.


If this is true, God help us all!

Camera edits are cheating, chroma key is cheating, digitization is cheating. If I want to watch "special effects" I'll break out one of my Indiana Jones or Star Wars films. If I want to watch magic, I want to watch magic!
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Jonathan Townsend
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Magic on TV is usually cheating. Aside from a few folks in the early days who made a point to work with no cuts, editing and a live studio audience, ... the rest is more film making than performance.

Let's try this for size, if what you were to film with your camcorder and experience in person is in any technical (magic method) or timewise or kinesthetic way different than what is shown in the program, then you have what amounts to a movie, not a magic special.

Once you add edits and non synchronized camera cuts to the production you have lost the element of veracity and are now using film technique to tell a story which (as film students know) need have no objective reality. Poof! credibility gone. Good cinematic storytelling but not the same as live magic. Different. Not gonna say better or worse.

For example, I am still amazed that some here treat the torn and restored card trick from the Copperfield special as a live performance. Over fifteen camera cuts and no sign of the camera man. Take the hint, or better yet take a film course.

Yes to cinematic storytelling. And yes to live magic presented with integrity.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
MaGiCoH
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Brazil
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Card through bus window..

just a hint: the chosen (and signed) card, was controlled to the t** and pa**** ... then...
     ´ H `

"Seeking the purest mentalism"



http://www.omentalista.com
Slim King
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When my bus breakes down I get a cab! How did they end up riding on a bus?
Was it a city bus? Was it a chartered bus? If chartered, then all of the folks on the bus were "PUT" there by someone. Right? It didn't look like an ordinary city bus. I've ridden quite a few.
It was another bus chartered by the producers of the show. In that case, everyone on the bus is "Working" for the show...Right!?! And TV producers usually hire "Actors" don't they....
Unless you think that a chartered bus just happened by.........
Wake up!
BTW...I really do like Criss, and this IS the future. Get used to it.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Dannydoyle
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Your right and your wrong. The bus stuff is right. As far as Chris goes he is now the presant, and we have no way of knowing if he is the future. If it goes over well enough with the public then yes indeed your right he is the future. The jury is still out on that one. He may be.........we will have to watch
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slim King
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Radio Mentalism is the next big thing!!!!!!!!We just lie on the radio so no pesky editing is needed!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
r1z08
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I really do not think that Criss cares much about what the magicians in the audience think about him, but rather he cares much more about the laymen. While it's fun to fool our fellow magicians, even I still care more about baffling the spectator who has no clue about what a Gallo Pitch is. Does anyone here agree? Did you really get into this art to just try and entertain other's in the craft or did you get into this for the laymen?
Dannydoyle
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I think the debate is weather he is actually entertaining an audience that is not magicians.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Envy
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Some have mentioned "it's a camera trick" etc... Folks..it's tv, you need a camera to film it in order to brodcast it! Just because it's on tv doesn't mean it's staged, or fixed or edited.
He goes out of his way to do his illusions in the most public forum available..on the street corners filled with complete strangers about. If it was all fake and if these hundreds of people week after week were "paid" to give fake reactions to the tricks, don't you think that by now, at least a few people would come public and say they were paid to "duke" the public?
It's funny tho, how when someone reaches the top of their game, such as Chris, how others on a lower level, try and knock the top guy down. Why? I dunno, but I do know if they put as much effort into improving their own "game" instead of criticizing others, maybe they'd have their own tv show and be admired by millions too for being a great entertainer. And isn't that what Chris is? An entertainer? I think he does it admirably, and the rest on here that can only find fault, what time did you say your tv show is coming on? Or what dates did you say your playing Las Vegas? lol Get a life PLeaseee
frenchmagi
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Finally, someone with some sense around here...
magicurt
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I have mixed feelings about it all. I woul not use the cameras as my gimmic to accompish an effect, but I do see some validity in a sense. Wasn't it Thurston who said his goal was to use an audience of 1000 to fool a single layman. I do feel many lay people don't look at his show as "real magic". Most people I ask say they think it is camera tricks. Entertainment is the goal--Period. But long term will this be entertaining? I don't believe it will.

I believe Baine seems to pass so quick is his lack of off camera show. I don't know anyone who has ever bought a ticket to a D.Blaine show. If you can't do a live show you just aren't a true magician. Blaine has talent but hasn't really used it wisely.

Chris does have a Vegas show and has been successful. So I find myself more tolerable of him. But long term will people desire to see these effects from us, the non-t.v. personalities? Where will it go? I don't know. But short term it brings in a new audience and entertains enough to be good for us all- at least briefly.

Curt
Dannydoyle
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Envy actually he goes out of his way to do the things in the LEAST public places. He has everyone stooged my friend this is not public. He tries to make it look public, but come on.

Again he is on TV so he is doing well as that goes. I am happy for him and wish him well. But please be realistic about it for us.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
swee
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I totally agree that he uses camera trick
Dannydoyle
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Oh and by the way I think you are quoting Ted Annamen. Not sure mind you but I believe so. You may even be quoting him incorrectly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Eddini_81976
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Quote:
On 2005-08-29 15:49, Nell wrote:
How does that qualify as magic, at all? Cutting cameras to mask your method is not magic. It gives a bad name to the art. From interviews I've read with Chriss Angel in the past, he seems to be fairly well educated on the art of magic, so why settle for this blasphemy? Is the money behind reality TV really worth it if it means discrediting a name you worked to build. Not for me!


I agree Whole-Heartedly Nell. You hit the nail on the head. If you see my other posts you'll see, I don't think using stooges, pre-show work, camera tricks / editing constitutes as "Magic". People aren't dumb. Richard Osterlind has a great take on this and a huge post. It's NOT about hating him OR jealousy. Obviously he's had great stage Illusion Shows. It's just this T.V. stuff I don't as well as many others don't like, Ed, (Eddini).

P.S. Why Banacek is invovled I don't know. Banacek is great and I have the HIGHEST RESPECT for.
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
tpdmagic
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[/quote]

I agree Whole-Heartedly Nell. You hit the nail on the head. If you see my other posts you'll see, I don't think using stooges, pre-show work, camera tricks / editing constitutes as "Magic". People aren't dumb.
[/quote]

LOL first off A lot of entertainers not just magicians use stooges, and I am the first to admit it. In my show I use one stooge and it works well for the lay audience and they have no idea. Pre show work is a part of art and a very cleaver part of art. I use a pre show work as well for a mind reading effect. I admit it. But it is clever and works well and no one has a clue, Camera tricks as in editing to acomplish a effect is wrong because the effect can not be re created live. But Editing out a move or a slieght is not wrong as tv would catch that no matter what. There are several ways to look at this but these are just opionons. Tv magic is not the same as live magic. Kinda like watching A broadway play on tv, there is nothing like experiencing it live. The energy on tv is a lot harder to capture then in a live situation. As for people being Dumb....LOL I really agree look at how many people are on this message board ripping other peoples hard work down. THAT IS DUMB. I ISSUE A CHALLENGE TO EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD, I HAVE A PROMO VIDEO ON MY WEBSITE. IF YOU CAN TELL ALL THE EDITS AND ALL THE CUTS AND WHAT THE REASONS WERE FOR THEM AS FOR TV I WILL GIVE ONE LUCKY WINNER A FREE COPY OF MY EBOOK BAR MAGICIAN. The only rule is that you must be specific about the edits. YES THE TV STATION DID SOME EDITS TO CLEAN UP SOME MAGIC, BUT I ASSURE YOU WHAT THE AUDIENCE SEES IS WHAT THEY GOT!

GOOD LUCK, AND REMEMBER BOYS AND GIRLS THIS A ART FORM AND THINGS CHANGE IN OUR AS THEY CHANGE IN OUR LIVES.

The first person to get it all right will be the winner I will post it here when and if that happens...LOL p.s. PM me only with your answers as I don't want it all over the Café.

http://www.tpdmagic.com just hit the promo vid section then the link for my promo video.


tpdmagic
Dannydoyle
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Ok so your saying you use good edits? GREAT the problem with Chris is his edits are so obvious. I agree with you the proper use of them is fine.

I KNOW Harry Anderson used a fantastic use of TV editing in Hello Sucker. NOBODY knew it but it was great. Simply read the book Wise Guy to see what I mean.

The problem is with his OBVIOUS use of the edits. Yours are not obvious, great for you and your show and for magic in general. You are kind of making the point I am making.

His use of STOOGES is horrible because it is the ONLY solutiion. THIS is the exact problem, thank you for clarifying it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tpdmagic
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Danny, I just understand the difference between tv and live magic, they are two different things. But I know that like what you said about his use of stooges is horrible, I personally don't think his use of stooges is horrible I think there choices of stooges was horrible. They are not believable at all, but to the lay audience watching the show maybe they are. I can tell the difference between a real reaction and a stooge reaction but can a lay audience? I am not sure of that. And you are right about Harry Anderson, it was very clever and very good editing for that effect. Thank you for the compliment about the not obvious use of edits for my promo, truth is I had no controll over the editing it was done at the production house, once I filmed the specials and did my thing it was out of my hands. I don't know how much control if any Chris has on his specials but on mine I was hired to do my magic, and the rest of the stuff was done with the production house. Anyway it is a art form and tv is another art form, I suggest to anyone go see chris live if you can as his show would be strong and the vibe would be there as with all good live magic.
Just want to point out no one has even attempted my challenge...kind of funny with all the people on the café bashing angel for using editing, tv magic and not one person has taken my challenge. There is a free e book in it for the winner, the book is a 19 95 value.... The challenge is still on....

tpdmagic
Sam Griffin
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I have one thing to say ..

Stop following the rules you bloody out dated and clished magicians!!!
Maybe that's why your here - arguing on themagiccafe?

Can't you jelous so called entertainers just be cool for once?
Listen to yas!
The truth is..He's more succesfull then you!

Ask yourself this .. Why do I perform magic?

Got your answer, good!
Now shut the **** up.
Get with the time.

Chris man, love your work!
Congratulations on your success!!
"When we are on stage, we are in the here and now."
"The eye is the window of your soul."

"The PERFORMER must BELIEVE in everything that takes place on the stage, only then will the AUDIENCE BELIEVE!
tpdmagic
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Sam, I love it, to the point and dead on....Good post...

tpdmagic
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