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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Expanded Shells vs Unexpanded Shells (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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rmofsky
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Does anybody out there have any practical advice about differences between Expanded Shells vs, those that are Unexpanded.

What I've learned is that unexpanded shells have no distortion on the face of the coin, and can be nicely milled on the sides to match the ungaffed coins.

Are they basically an alternative to expanded shell sets?

Does anybody have any preferences?

Thanks for any advice.

=RM
www.adventuresintourism.com "...about the thrill of escape and the vehicles that take you there..."
Charlie Justice
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Mike Wild
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There's a long and interesting history here, worth looking into as time permits, but to answer your question a bit more directly...

Shell coins have come a looong way since they were first invented... sometime in the 1600's if I'm not mistaken. The distortion on a modern e] (are we still using shorthand for this?) is minimal, and not noticable to spectators IMO. The e] allows you to cover a coin of the same denomination and/or size, where an unexpanded ] requires coins that are smaller that the ] coin (either a smaller coin of a different denomination, or a coin of the same denomination which has been milled down to fit under the ].

Each ] type has its strengths and weaknesses. It's a personal preference as to which, if any, is better. Johnson's "Ultimate Copper and Silver" is an example of a gaff set that utilizes an unexpanded ]. It's a great gaff for those who like Scoth & Soda type effects, but want to take it to the "next level", for lack of a better (albeit over-used) industry term.

I prefer to use a well-made expanded ], or set of ]'s, and a number of ungaffed coins, but again, it's a personal preference based upon the effects that I perform, and what has proven to work better for me. This is not to say that my Johnson Ult. C/S set sits in a box somewhere, it doesn't. I use it as regularly as I use my e] sets. Diversity is always a good thing.

Nesting a milled coin into an unexpanded ], and then nesting both into an e] has been a topic of some fairly recent threads, and an interesting concept in general Smile

All the best,

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Daegs
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Basically, expanded shells came around during the time when half dollars and silver dollars were in circulation and in people pocket's.

A coin magician of that era would actually borrow 4 half dollars and perform with them, adding in the shell of course.

These days, unless you are borrowing coins you should be getting an unexpanded set.

The only advantages these days that I see are:

1. They are cheaper beacuse they are sold alone
2. You supply the matching 4 coins
3. You can fit in on any half dollars you have.

The downsides are many:
1. face is stretched and the coin is thinner due to being expanded
2. Every half dollar is not actually perfectly round, nor are they the same size, so any expanded shell you get wont fit your coins perfectly and must be made overly big in order to accomodate those un-round and larger coin around. With an unexpanded, the shell is made and THEN coins are put on a lathe and cut down, so not only are they perfectly round, but they are the perfect size for that shell.


Anyway, these days go with a milled down set, they are much better to work with than an expanded one.
Jonathan Townsend
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I could not tell you anything about "should".

Some folks are now making gaffs that nest three and four deep. Clever folks.

Given the reality of todays coinage you do have some intersting choices to make.

One approach involves finding the routines you like and the presentation you wish to use and let that suggest the appropriate props for the magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Kjellstrom
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Can anyone recommend a great DVD(s) with coin magic using shells?
Mediocre the Great
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Rich Hurley
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Quote:
On 2005-11-27 10:38, Kjellstrom wrote:
Can anyone recommend a great DVD(s) with coin magic using shells?


Extreme Dean 1&2
David Roth's Expert Coin Magic Series

These and Bobo's Modern Coin Magic Book will keep you busy for a long time!
Mediocrity is greatly under rated!
--------------------------------------------

Rich Hurley aka Mediocre The Great!
www.RichHurleyMagic.com
Backdoor
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Mike, you broke that down well... I don't use ]'s much as I have never been able to get them to work without the noise they make. I have a Hopping Half set (unexpanded, I think) and it is somewhere lying around. I'm sure if I practice it, I'd use them better but I don't know, I just don't like the use of the ]'s...Anyway, is the Slippery Sam and the Sun & Moon a sort of ] gimmick too? Oh, and besides the high price stuff from the craftsman, what can a guy on a budget look for in good-enough ] making at reasonable prices? I'm thinking a good hitter with a cheap bat can make a cheap bat look pretty good sometimes.
-Only The Shadow Knows...Y'know?
Kjellstrom
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TIP: Affordable Expanded Shells:
http://themagicwarehouse.com/johnson.html#jo1412
Magical Dimensions
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I am looking for magnetic shells. Is there such a thing?



Ray
Aaron Moring
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Ray, there is a ferrous (shimmed) shell, Mint Condition, that you can find occasionally. Or you could get some shimming and shim your own. As for magnetic, I don't think I've ever heard of one. Doesn't mean they don't exist, though... I am not sure if space would allow for it.
truthteller
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In the interest of Historical accuracy, the expanded shell is considered an invention of Connie Haden and was first released in 1960.
DomKabala
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I've grown old after diggin' holes for
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Quote:
On 2005-11-27 23:57, truthteller wrote:
In the interest of Historical accuracy, the expanded shell is considered an invention of Connie Haden and was first released in 1960.
You are correct... http://daytonamagic.net/customer/index.c......tId=2389 I met Connie years ago here in Daytona Bch.

<<<<KRaZy4kardz>>>>
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info2victor
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While one might find an unexpanded [ less distorted, one might eventually prefer expanded ones. I'm one example. I have a set of unexpanded [ with a matching half. They look quit alike and the size of the [ is exaclty as a half dollar.

But sooner or later you'll notice it is not enough since you can only continue to nest and un-nest the same coin, which simply cannot be done smoothly for some routines. If you think you can buy 4 sets and use all those "smaller" halves, think again. It is not worthy to do so. And the thing is the coin "insert" is actally smaller than the shell, so the size difference problem remains.

I'd strongly suggest an e[ if you want to use your [ for a couple of routines. It's not that obvious if you buy a shell from a good producer, or even better if you have it custom made by some craftsmen. I recently saw a barber e[ and I can't tell the difference with normal barbers. Remember you are not asking the audience to examine the coins and ask "do you notice there is a small size difference?"
It only takes a minute to learn how it is done, but takes a lifetime to learn how to do it.

You've got a coin?
CoinMan21
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China
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If you have seen Dean's Set, you will change your opinion on unexpanded [
info2victor
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O thanks. this set is news to me. will take a look at it later on.

but for now... my vote is still on e[ because of it's versatility.
It only takes a minute to learn how it is done, but takes a lifetime to learn how to do it.

You've got a coin?
Larry Davidson
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As CoinMan21 points out, there are unexpanded ]s on the market that come with multiple/dentical "insert" coins. Dean's set is great.
Larry Davidson
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I meant "identical," not "dentical" (whatever that is, maybe a coin that you bite? Smile)
magic1178
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Howdy,I have a Kuepper's Expanded Toonie Shell,which is not bad,but ever since a spectator pointed out that one coin looks bigger,I always see the expanded as apparantly larger.

Now with the coins always slightly in motion will help this weak point, I was wondering are the unexpanded more deceptive as in relation to the size discreptancy?
Derek Johnston
John Long
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That may be an artifact of the Toonies two-metal design, that makes it more obvious. I don't notice a difference with expanded half shells
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