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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Expanded Shells vs Unexpanded Shells (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2005-12-03 09:57, CoinMan21 wrote:
If you have seen Dean's Set, you will change your opinion on unexpanded [


Not necessarily. I have owned both, and gravitated to expanded. The reasons given in favor of un-ex['s appeal mainly to the user. In competent hands, spectators will never know the difference, and expanded shells are significantly less expensive. True, the fit is custom made on an unexpanded set, but again, in competent hands this means nothing very little. I know many who have easily found 'perfect fit' ungaffed coins to fit their exp. shell.

If you lose, or damage an unexpanded coin, it is must more costly and time-consuming to replace.

One plus for unexpanded shells is the new milling on the edges, which provides easier grip for those whose hands are too dry, etc... to classic palm well.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Walking Bob
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I have both the expanded and unexpanded shells and I prefer the unexpanded because of how completely it covers the coin. Also I like how it looks when flat on the table, it is the same thickness as the rest of the coins.

Happy New Year!!!

Walking Bob in Iowa
Walking Bob
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Also I have a Dean's set and when you see this set you will see a major difference in expanded and unexpanded!!!

Walking Bob
Ocha
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I'm of the opinion that I prefer expanded shells, for many of the above stated reasons, but mainly because I can afford them. I'm sure that a Dean's set is better in fit and quality and precision, but I can do most if not ALL of the same routines with an expanded shell and 4 regular coins as I could with a Dean's set whith enough money left over to buy some great videos and books to teach me these routines. With a good expanded shell and 4 coins I've carefully matched to it I doubt any spectator (or magician for that matter) could tell me if I was using a Dean's set or Expanded set. You see during any routine I would do the shell is not left still next to any other coin for any real amount of time for there to be any comparison of size. The coins in a routine are usually in motion for the most part and not just set on the table for comparisons, even with a coin matrix the shell is usually only next to another coin for a second or two before it is covered and "teleported" to a new location.

Now this is only my opinion and if anyone thinks that I would change my opinion completely if only I'd use a Dean's set, well feel free to send me a Dean's set to prove me wrong Smile otherwise I'll be using expanded sets until I get that retirement check that the Powerball people are going to send me. Smile

If you can afford it and you want the very best then by all means check out the custom sets like the Dean's set, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. the custom coin guys do GREAT WORK and I hope my opinion doesn't come across in any negative way towards them, I just feel the custom coins are a magician's luxury but not a necessity.

Gerald
I was Me but now He is gone.......
taller8
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I prefer the unexpanded set mainly for the coverage that the shell provides, and the new milled edges. But I didn't go out of my way to buy this set, I just found a used Barber Deans set on the Café.

Both styles are great.

But that is a good point, if I lost one of the extra coins, it would be expensive to replace.


But of course, no matter what style you buy, the shell will always look a little larger.
taller8
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I prefer the unexpanded set mainly for the coverage that the shell provides, and the new milled edges. But I didn't go out of my way to buy this set, I just found a used Barber Deans set on the Café.

Both styles are great.

But that is a good point, if I lost one of the extra coins, it would be expensive to replace.


But of course, no matter what style you buy, the shell will always look a little larger.
BanzaiMagic
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Quote:
On 2005-11-27 14:16, Magical Dimensions wrote:
I am looking for magnetic shells. Is there such a thing?

Ray


When you are ready, you might want to look into a custom T.U.C. or a Lassen TT/Schoolcraft 3CM.

Regards,

Alan
Bendy
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I have a few sets of coins with a ]. I have a Deans Set of Peace dollars from Jamie Schoolcraft, I have an unexpanded set of Morgan dollars from Roy Kueppers and I have an expanded Peace dollar ] from Johnson. When it first arrived, I was pleasantly surprised by the Johnson ]. It's good quality, not much rocking/movement and covers a regular Peace dollar by about 2/3 of the coin. Not perfect to close scrutiny or when performing in front of other magicians or people "in the know" about the utility device. I added a Teflon disc to the inside to cut down on noise; which helps. The ] then sits higher on the coin, of course; but the lack of noise is a fair trade-off. The distortion on the Johnson is minimal and certainly less than I expected, having seen some other expanded ]s. But in comparing it side-by-side to another coin, you can see the expansion distortion; but, again, it's less than you would expect if you've inspected cheaper ]s. My Johnson ] is primarily for practice purposes and as an emergency backup, should something happen to one of my unexpanded sets that requires me to have to replace one of the coins.

The Roy Kueppers unexpanded set is very nice. Recently, I was comparing it to a friend's Lassen set, and it is my opinion that it actually looks better and covers the reduced and re-milled coins by a much greater fraction. Of course, I may have been looking at an expanded Lassen ] and not an 'unexpanded' one. Honestly, as I write this, I'm not sure. But the Kueppers set is a beautiful set of well-made/milled coins and my second favorite to work with. In fact, I carry this set everywhere, perform with it almost daily and am confident in performing with it in any environment and am proud to recommend it to other magicians.

Then there's my Schoolcraft Deans Set. Consisting of an unexpanded ] and four reduced and re-milled coins, it is nothing less than a work of art. To the naked eye of someone who does not know they're looking at a coin and a ], it is virtually impossible to identify the coin with the ]. The Schoolcraft set is my favorite set to work with. Beautifully and artfully made and the coins work in concert with the ] like a dream. This is my "executive" set, in that I use it often, but do not use my Schoolcraft set daily. This is the first expensive set I ever purchased; which I finally purchased as an investment after years of wanting one and not wanting, or able, to spend the money. I highly recommend a Schoolcraft set, (Dean's Set, if you can swing it), for all my professional magician colleagues. They are worth the INVESTMENT. In my opinion, they are the absolute best on the market.

There are noticeable differences between an expanded ] and an unexpanded ] with reduced and re-milled coins. Noticeable differences in look, feel, sound, palming and overall use. In all of these areas, I find the unexpanded sets to be superior. It's obviously a matter of personal preference and, but I prefer the unexpanded ] to an expanded one; even if the expanded one is of good quality. ...Just my personal choice; but I thought I'd share it here. Take it for what it's worth - it's just my viewpoint based on the sets I have and use.
Ocha
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Ok I've only got one thing to say to Bendy's review and opinions... AWESOME!!! As I'm sure most here have read my opinions on the matter of expanded vs. unexpanded, I still stand by Some of my points but Bendy's review has me really wanting to try a Dean's Set Badly. That was a very thorough, informative, and persuasive opinion and I thank you for giving me a little incite with direct comparisons and no-nonsense descriptions of all aspects of the difference between the sets.

I'm speechless....

Gerald
I was Me but now He is gone.......
J-Mac
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Question about Schoolcraft's Dean's Sets: Originally they were advertised as the shell being not only for the milled matching coins that come with it, but also that the "Dean's Set Flippers" fit perfectly within the shell. While the Dean's Sets are still sold I haven't seen any Dean's Set Flippers for a long time. Are they still sold? And if not then of what benefit is the Deans Set over the regular unexpanded set?

Thanks!

Jim
Bendy
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Thanks, Ocha. ...If you were a local guy, I'd let you handle the Schoolcraft Deans Set to see the difference. I think it would sell you on it. But, again, it's all personal preference. You've gotta work with what suits you best.

J-Mac: I don't have a Deans Set Flipper. I know that with the Schoolcraft stuff, Jamie keeps your coin specs on record, (and provides them to you when you purchase from him, as well). So if you have a Deans Set, chances are he can make a Flipper that will work perfectly in concert with the set. If you have an older Deans Set for which he may not have record, or if you got it second hand or something, I'm guessing Jamie could still make a Flipper that would be perfect for whatever Deans Set you have.

As for the Deans Set over regular unexpanded set...Schoolcraft is the only one selling "Deans Sets." That's what he calls his unexpanded sets. ...So they are one in the same. To answer how the Schoolcraft Deans Sets are different from one manufacturer's unexpanded set or another, you'd have to do a side-by-side comparison to know the difference and know what works best for you. While the Deans Set and another's 'unexpanded' set are built on the same principles and should be the same thing...I can tell you that all unexpanded sets are not created equally. Again, I believe Jamie Schoolcraft's are the best available. There are others that are really, really good and worth the investment and will serve you well for a lifetime. But the Schoolcraft ones - for me, anyway - are a cut above the others I've seen, own and have worked with. I can't technically explain it. ...It's a 'feel' thing, mostly.
Martin Simonnet
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I can't help but have a preference towards expanded [.
It is quite useful when performing with [/ coins, as they fit inside the shell.
Also, I have a [ by Mr. Belmont, and he does e[ without having the face of the coin distorted... It's just slightly bigger, since it is an e[, but the face is identical.
Besides, the e[ also has some other advantages, from a more practical point of view, such as an easier replacement of the coins if you break/lose/drop one.
Just my 2 cents Smile
cdmdu
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Get a hopping half set and you could make up your own opinion about it. You will also discover that you can use the two [ together, increasing the effects and methods... and difficulties.
It depend also of the context of your presentation (impromptu or not, etc.), of your other gimmicks (okito box for example) if used, of your own habits and experiences.

just my 1 cent.
Hugh Entwistle
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I personally prefer the expanded shell as other coins can be borrowed and the shell palmed, giving the spectator the appearance of an impromptu effect, also that the milled down coin for the unexpanded is just another coin you need to have on you and takes away some of the flexibility of your routines, you cannot borrow the coin and when examined, the detailed eye may pick up on it
bowers
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I prefer the unexpanded myself.
Daniel Clemente
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I'm all about the expanded!
Lawrence O
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The drawback of the unexpanded shell is the re-milling of the insert and therefore the initial choice of coin. If the original coin has a smooth edge, it's not a real problem.
Now this beingsaid I have been using for years, in performance, some non remilled coins with their shell and nobody ever noticed the absence of milling on the insert.
So the preference for the unexpanded shell is, IMHO, a collector's vision and feeling.
As already underlined in this thread, the expanded shell offers the advantage of fitting any original similar coins. Now, this being said, using an expanded shell over a non expanded shel offers a lot of possibilities.
Samoya is one brilliant example of such possibilities.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
rickmagic1
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I have a routine I'd like to perform, but need a locking unexpanded shell and coin to do it. Where are these available?
Richard Green
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Host of the Haunted Magic show at House of Cards Nashville!
Yano
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I prefer expanded shells and david roth has a lot of work on it
Mb217
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Hi Rick, surprise no response to your question on this??? You might know already by now but you should be able to get what you want here from any of the craftsman. Mr. Tango or Roy Kueppers I'm sure could help with such a simple order. You might also give a great new craftsman here a try with this, PM TWOCAN here on the Café, he does very good work. Smile

-Mb
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
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