Oh,I almost forgot:Father Bunda was referring to an image of The Lady of Guadaloupe.

Bingo! If you'll wait right there, the duck will come down from the ceiling and take away $100!

*jeep!
--Chet

I thought I was supposed to take away a $100. Quack! Quack!

"Jonathan Creek" is a BBC series featuring a magician's assistant solving locked room mysteries.

Besides the riddle itself, every episode is filled with clever linguistic puns and winks at the magic industry.

Adam Klaus, The magician for which Jonathan Creek works is typical "TV magician" stereotype.

In one episode he was apt on doing David Blain type effects - Being buried underground in a clear coffin (which due to proximity to rail road lines caused him to appear to shake erratically each time a train passed) or being crucified (only to have himself and the cross collapse into a pile of manure).

Another episode had Jonathan occupied in trying to helplessly edit his boss' new TV mentalism show.

Jonathan is busy cutting many clips of the Adam approaching people and asking them for a two digit number, and only after numerous takes he finds a spectator who names the "right" number - when Adam can take his shirt of to show it written on his chest.
He then cuts out the spectator’s response and pasts the spectacular way he reacted to Adam stepping in a pile of dog droppings.

This is all on national television. I think the public is not that naive to believe everything they see Derren Brown do happens exactly like this in real time.

Seems to me that if they are using these liberal 'editing' policies, and everyone knows it, then the only people they are really fooling are themselves!

I would be interested in seeing the ratings of the show now. Have they declined, stayed the same, gone up?

Chad

Who remembers the American TV Series "The Magician" staring Bill Bixby...

I can remember staying up past my bed time to watch this when I was a kid. This was one of my favorites growing up. With all of the 70's and 80's shows these days making it to DVD does any body know if the series will make it on to DVD anytime in the future...

MAGICIAN2000 said:

"Who remembers the American TV Series "The Magician" staring Bill Bixby...

I can remember staying up past my bed time to watch this when I was a kid. This was one of my favorites growing up. With all of the 70's and 80's shows these days making it to DVD does any body know if the series will make it on to DVD anytime in the future..."

Check on Ebay: the DVD set is being sold there all the time!

Don

Don,

Interestingly enough, even though "The Magician" was a fictional TV series, the magic Bill Bixby performed was real and did not rely on camera editing. Mark Wilson, of course, was the man behind the magic.

I should also mention that when Houdini decided to make movies, he also insisted on doing everything without any camera tricks even when it meant walking on the wings of flying airplanes and VERY DANGEROUS STUNTS LIKE THAT!

Richard

What is pretty sad is to see that well know magicians, who had worked hard for years to master the art of deception, are supporting and helping to make this TV shows.

I am sure they share some secrets with C.Angel about how to do this and that better. What happen when they found that their secret was performed but edited ? I would feel that my art has been corrupted for money and mainly that I have worked hard in vain.

Mr Osterlind a quite interisting topic. I admire your stance of not bashing a particular performer, but still presenting the question.

I think I did see a special like you mentioned. It was called "The Fantastic Four". A great special effects movie where people lit themselvs on fire, flew, were invisible, stretched themslevs, and were strong enough to lift a fire truck. A great special effects effort, but a horrible magic show.

To me many of the recent magic efforts on TV qualify as horrible special effects, and horrible magic shows. The judicious and effective use of camera editing can be used for memorable magic. Simply watch "Hello Sucker". There IS camera trickery in there and it goes by without any thought.

Recently the specials have made the tricks so silly and beyond belief that the only explination is camera editing and special effects. That is bad because the explination is true.

Well enough rambling. In short I wish someone would re-think the new direction of TV magic and get back to Don Alans magic ranch.

Don,
I did check E-bay, and have sent the sellers a couple questions, as their ad's look like the DVD's were manufactured at home and I am guessing the quality would not be worth 2 bits... As I have done a bit of searching on both Amazon, and Google and could not find any release of the series to DVD, I would be very supprised. After reading the comments left for one of the sellers previous buyers, the show were copied off of the Sci-Fi Channel. Below are the two sellers that have very questionable items for sale enclosed with specific comments to show they are not original DVD's. I am taking the time to report the violation to E-bay, I know that there are quite a few threads on the forum in regards to E-bay auctions and the selling of E-books, that are copied with out the owners permission, and this is really not much different. One of the sellers has been a member there since '98, how much $ do you think he has made ripping of other peoples work?

NOTE: I am not endorsing in any way these sellers and as a matter of fact am reporting them to E-bay for Copyright violations.

I will keep you updated and see if E-bay pulls the items off of the auction.
Seller # 1
Magic The Magician Complete Series Bill Bixby DVD Item number: 6433281990
Seller information temporal99 ( 30)
Comment
The Magician DVDs were Bad copys from The Sci-Fi Channel.I Could Have Done that.
From Date/Time Item #
Buyer ncc1701ben ( 88) 16-Aug-05 04:51 6419651540

Seller #2
Bill Bixby "The Magician" on DVD Tv Series 22 shows Item number: 6433180269
Seller information dekram ( 704)
Comment
Seller didn't state DVD's were taped off of TV; other than that, I like them.
From Date/Time Item #
Buyer chasdad999 ( 35) 14-Sep-05 05:36 6421954580

Just my 2 cents worth. I decided to ask family and friends, what they thought of the CA and DB shows and if they would like to see a show that uses every available means to produce magic.
There majority answers are as follows ( this was from nearly 28 people ( ages 14-64)

26 said that CA stuff was TV tricks, and were not impressed.
2 totally belived that what CA does is real! (all of it)

15 said they belive what DB does .completly
11 said they are definatly tv trick involved!, by the way one of the 15 is convinced that he is in league with the devil as is CA!

All 26 said , that the use of tv trick is different from the live trick they would normally see, and don't agree with trick that only work on tv being aired.

All 26 said that if the trick can't be perform infront of a live audience, then they didn't consider this magic ( by the way the questions was... should the tricks that are used be able to performed just on tv or not?)

One point that was made by quite a few was this....
when they reach a point with a show they feel they are being 'mocked' by the show. i.e these effect are just tv trick etc. they are done.

I made sure that I didn't promt any answers, and didn't tell them ever what was 'real' and what was tv tricks. The ones the volunteered to tell me, what they thought were just tv tricks were right every time.

They also didn't like the expose shows as this takes the magic out of seeing a magic show live!

Well not sure what this all means, but the lay person isn't getting folled anymore by tv tricks. One said to me that they ask a magician at a show if he can do the criss angel levitation (6ft in the air) the magian (which I think was alittle rude) laughed and said with a crane like criss does. He said he felt real stupid for asking and hasn't watched CA since!

Well make of this what you want. I thought I would give the feelings of a some lay people.

Steve

Steve,

Thank you for doing all that "ground" work. The results are very interesting.

About the magicians exposing a method to a layman: I cannot and do not endorse ANY type of magical exposure. With that said, I wonder how many magicians resent being put in a "second-class" league unfairly? (That is, of course, only if the spectator doesn't suspect camera tricks.)

Richard

Richard,

Even though I have only being learning for a few months, many of those people I asked the question to had asked if I can do some of the 'tricks' they saw. now a lot of them I am just not up to yet and said as much, but a few of them I knew to be TV tricks, and its a tough one to answer, as I am only a newbie, I can just use a stock answer of I am not that good yet. But Once I have been doing this for a number of years the answer will be that much harder.
I agree with you I never expose any method, even TV tricks, but as a whole looking at this from a newbie standpoint and also hearing laymen views, I think that if certain performers on TV don't curtail they performances to ensure they can be performed live as well, you will have a public that will start dismissing all they see as TV tricks. Having said that, when you are able to perform something they see and more importantly something better right in front of their face, the second class magician becomes the TV performer.
I know when I just showed the ACR to one of the ones I asked, they said, as have been mentioned before in this post, seeing it live has far greater impact.

I guess the good thing about these shows is it does bring more public awareness about magic and mentalism etc, And I would guess that exposure is a good thing if your earning a living from it.
But my feeling on what I heard was that the public aren’t always as ignorant as we think. A TV only trick show, would wear thin quickly. There are people who believe everything that they see is real, as in the 2 comments that CA and DB in league with the devil are few and far between but these are also the type of people who write into the soap actors as if they are real people.
People are skeptics generally. I think performer who use TV only trick harm themselves in the end. Make a tougher audience for the rest of us. But I would say in my humble opinion that any street magician or mentalist could stand against CA anytime with one simple test. CA signature trick is the 6ft float, lets see that live, and then let the live mentalist or magician does his signature move, it may not as impressive on the TV, but I know that only can do this live!

Steve

p.s If you don't mind me asking richard which series of yours would you recommend me getting first, I really want to get more into the mentalism side of things.

Many thanks

Wednesday is my 'poker nite' with my friends. It also happens to be tha nite that the CA specials are on. So needless to say, we talk about the special as we play. For the most part, they think he drags everything out too much. Spending way too much time hyping one effect. Then they always ask me if I can 'do that'. What do you say? How can you answer that. If I say "NO" then I look like a lesser magician. If I say "YES", then they will ask me to do it. But because of the 'tv tricks', of course, I can't. So my solution was to say that the 'tricks' he does are striclty for the 'home audience' and can only be done on tv. Not the he uses CGI or any type of computer effects, but he is taking advantage of the camera angles, and controlling the environment, and people surrounding it.
I usually follow up with some card trick for them. I think they are more impressed as they got to see a trick live, with no special setup.

This makes me think of something I once read in an old magic book that gets overlooked nowadays. The Amateur Magicians Handbook. Their was a passage that stated "A sleight of hand guy is the one person who's stature may even grow by exposure."

Meaning that a sleight of hand person can create miracles right in front of you. Then if exposed, people would still be amazed at the intircate sleights he performed right under their noses.

Something to think about.

Chad

It is amazing but unfortunately not surprising that a fellow magician would tell a layperson "with a crane like Criss Angel does". Proof that this is a bad idea is the fact the person felt stupid for asking the question and "never watched another episode." Shame a fellow magician would take away the mystery, on top of it he was wrong with his explanation. It only shows his/her lack of talent, manners, tact and understanding.

I remember when Blaine did his levitations and laypeople would ask if I could levitate like he. Rather than do a levitation (I could have) I simply answered with "No, that is his effect and he is known for that, let me show you what I do." and I would then go into one of my effects if the situation warranted. It did not make me any less of a magician, and even if it had, so what? Blaine had a TV special I did not. Criss Angel has a TV special, you may not. Don't look at it as how can you live up to Criss, look at it as how can you live up to yourself. Don't compare yourself and others will not. They may at first compare but if you are any good, you should be able to change the subject fast with your own abilities.

Astound and amaze your people with what you do, if you can't do that then maybe one should get out of the business. Talking down our art in any way is not good for our art. Even if you see a bad magician and someone talks about them in a bad way, do not join in, build our art up with good magic. Show them what good magic can be about don't cement in their mind that magic is stupid and trivial create a lasting picture for them that magic is amazing and deserves to be respected.

Banachek,That was a profound and powerful statement you just made! Thank-you. All the Best. Rich

Banachek brings up some great advice that I have lived by myself and proposed on past posts here on the Café. Nothing seen on TV can ever be compared to a "live" performance of the same art. A rock concert on television is only a dim reflection of what it feels like to be at the actual show. The same goes for sporting events, fireworks displays, whatever. A good magician can certainly display his wares in such a way as to make the face to face encounter surpass the biggest miracle seen on the screen.

The difference, however, is that a television performance of a concert shows the real concert taking place. Likewise with a sporting event or other show. That is where the difference lies.

So are we to treat TV magic in the same way that the music industry treats music videos vs. live shows? Are we ready to relinquish televison magic to a different standard of levels to that of live entertainment and should there be any limits put on what can be used to achieve the effects and what shouldn't? This is the reason for my itinial post.

Richard

Say: "get me a TV contract and I'll do anything you like."

As I said in my previous post, my answer towhen I am asked if I can do one of the effects of CA or DB is to simply say I am not that good yet, then later on in my progression, the suggestion of what banachek says is excellent, "no that’s his effect, let me show you what I do" I said before I am sure that anyone that perform this art for a living has benefited from the exposure of the TV specials. I agree that the magician that made that comment about Criss Angel was wrong, but I think it also highlighted a frustration with problem with these types of effects. Albeit his immaturity in the snap back about the method he felt was used.

In summary using effects that can only work on TV is not a healthy option, and I don't care who has done it, angles and editing are fine, we all use angles in any routine, but flat out attempt to portray something as happening in a live setting but is not. If I want to see TV effects I can rent Star Wars. But when I start wondering while watching a magician if that is television tricky or not, is a shame.

But what do I know, I am just a beginner

Steve