Greg Gleason has asked me to post the following here:

I would have responded to this topic sooner but I am not a registered member and the site is locked to new registrants. (WHY?) I've emailed the webmaster to register and have not received a response.

In response to all comments about this product:

1. The Card on Seat routine is right out of Karrell Fox's book "Crazy like a Fox", published in 1976, page 143. This is the effect of BOTH my version and Collector's Workshop's version. I have spoken to George Robinson of Viking Magic and he does not dispute this.

2. Most of the people who have made accusations on this thread have not even bothered to view the video presentation of my routine, including George, which is completely different than the one supplied with Collector's Workshop's version, or published in "Crazy Like a Fox." I have seen many people try to present the CW routine in front of a large audience and it plays flat. My routine with the cue cards and the spectator using stock magic lines makes this routine extremely entertaining and I'm sure anyone with a CW set of chairs will soon be implementing my routine in their shows. Most full-time working professionals would never release such a solid 3 - 4 minute presentation. Maybe I should have just advertised the routine for $425 and thrown in the chairs for free. Everyone who has purchased one has told me that just the routine is worth the price.

3. Wooden chairs are wooden chairs and CW does not have exclusive rights to them. This is a common item that can be purchased at any home store. The mechanism that I have created or the method in which the card appears is completely different than the current CW model. It is not just a different placement of a button or different kind of hinge. My version is superior in it's simplicity in that there are no mechanical parts to malfunction. It utilizes a strong carpet thread that ejects the card that is absolutely fool proof. The motion of the release is on the top of the back of the chair making it a much more natural movement than the CW version. The chairs are not the presentation or the effect, just a tool to produce a card.

So the effect is published, my presentation is different (watch the video), and the method of releasing the card is completely different. In fact the only similarity is they are everyday wooden folding chairs. What's the issue? Is someone in the magic community not allowed to improve a product and sell it at a reasonable price. I live in the real world and know in the real world products are improved everyday to all of our benefit.

Of course Viking Magic is unhappy that I have offered to the magic community a similar effect with an extremely entertaining presentation and a fool proof mechanism for less than they sell theirs for.

Greg Gleason

Wow..I am at a loss for words. But I will try.
With that logic, I could darn near build any effect out there.
Nick was well known to engineer props with complex mechanics. I, as a creator, could EASILY simplify/change the workings of almost ALL the Collector's Workshop effects. Then, just change the routine (come on!)and I could sell a truckload for half the price.
The question is...why do I choose NOT to do this?
Chance

One way to make a prop like this is to seek a licencing agreement with the proper folks.

1: The routine (effec of a card under someone's seat) is intellecutal property of the Karrell Fox Estate.

2: The mechanical chair is intellectual property of Collector's Workshop/Chuck Fayne.

Mr. Gleason: What you have comeup with for sale is your presentation concept using cue cards.

You should have contacted the above folks before you manufactured any props.

I have seen the video clip and the idea is a good one (using cue cards) and I think I might be tempted to steal it... but, it is unethical, so I won't.

Let me first state that I fully agree with what is being said in this thread.
Even more, if I tell you my that I was considering purchasing one of Gleason's version, until I had found out that CW had previously sold one... (many thanks to Andy Martin's collection website, which has been very often a great reference for me before purchasing anything in Magic!).

I have then contacted George Robinson, and he told me the true and sad reality. There is NO question in my mind that I will wait for the new version that George is promising for December.

On the other hand, one should learn something from this story : Greg Gleason has still earned one important point, which is that he was proposing an enhancement to an old version, on both routine and mechanics aspects. The proper way required that he got in contact with CW and perhaps worked out a deal with them. I am sure he would have gotten at least the credit he deserved and perhaps even more (actually, the rights to sell?!).

I agree with Pete: I will get the set of chairs from CW, but will be strongly tempted to adopt Gleason's idea for the cue cards...

Protecting an invention is a great thing. Now inventors have also to be somewhat open-minded enough to recognize that others could bring improvement that are beneficials to their original and to the community.

Allow me to quote G. Robinson : "We are supposed to be a brotherhood. We should all try to elevate the Art and honor what has given all of us so much. I hope I can count on you."

Thomas

I wrote and sold a presentaion of "Card on the seat",with cue cards eight years ago. So much for Gleason's "original" presentation.
-JS

Even better then !
Thanks Jon for relieving us from the guilt of stealing Gleason's idea.
Eight years, you said?... hmmmm. Should we then consider,that the presentation has fallen into public domain or do you want a check for the rights?!
Better idea: talk to G. Robinson !!

Thomas

Would seem to me that if the "lines" in Mr. Gleason's routine were substantially cripped from either Fox or the CW instructions (via Fayne) then this would be a clear case of COPYRIGHT infringement. Yes/no? Just curious for bigger reasons than this case, per se.

Because you continue to live up to the high ethical standards that we have come to know you for.

I think the explanation was kind of a farce, though I think at least contacting the prior creators would have gone a long way to make it more acceptable.

I for one believed in covering all my bases when acquiring this effect. Not only did I spend quite a bit of money obtaining the original props but I also purchased Karrel's book and Chuck's small booklet where he had included the routine for Card on Seat.

And I for one have never had a problem by the way with the trigger. Weird place? Yes. Ever got caught? Nope.

"cripped" should read "cribbed"

How could someone pay 450.00 for a wooden chair that flips a card under a person much less pay 850.00. What people will sepnd money on nowadays is sometimes beyond belief. I have been doing this as taught on Daryls video for about 4 years now. The video cost me 15.00. A savings of 835.00 over CW and 435.00 over Gleasons. I guess my math in school did come in handy.

The best answer I can give to help you understand is...STARBUCKS!!

Now we're talkin'!

I saw the late Jay Vincent, of Kansas City, actually perform the Card on Seat with cue cards for the spectator in 1971 when he appeared at a night club in Rock Island, Illinois. even before Karrel Fox' book was ever published. Now, I admit, the cards Jay used were index cards, so maybe Mr. Gleason will insist on credit for the size difference. Unbelievable. By the way, Jay took NO credit for creating the routine, nor, obviously, did he ever try to market it.

Okay, so Connie Haden invents the Two Copper, One Silver Transposition. Along comes the Copper, Silver, Brass Transposition which truly IS a giant step forward and dramatically improves the mystery of the effec with the addition of a real hole through one coin. That is different. But, in this analogy, what Mr. Gleason has done is to create the Two Silver, One Copper Transposition. That is not a step forward from Connie Haden's creation and is absolutely no different except for the color scheme.

And, frankly, I don't see any value in the routine itself. It is no different from the many presentations I've seen others use. If he really thinks the routine is that good, he should have contributed it to a magic magazine. That's where it belongs and that's the real monetary value of it.

Anybody know which Daryl video His version is on ?

thanks

Daryl's version is on one of the card revelation videos. There are 5 of them but I can't remember which one.

Cheers , found it on number 4.

I totally agree that charging $850+ for a gimmicked chair is crazy. Heck even $450 is crazy. Especially given that the routine lasts all of about 3 minutes.

Plus, please forgive me, the card is selected and signed by the MAGICIAN!! So the mystery here is....what?


Bob

P.S. Does the $450 include the pink smoking jacket?

How the card gets under the specs backside.. not Your own

Thanks. I understand that. But would it take any thinking spectator more than 12.5 seconds to realized that it's not the same card?