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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » David Berglas DVD (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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skullmaster
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I have just managed to win a 2 DVD set of David Berglas's TV programs, "The Mind of David Berglas" that were on Tyne Tees TV, from Ebay. It's really great to watch and I have noticed already that some of the effects are still being used today, by top mentalists. It was a great buy. I'm sure I'll learn a lot from this set.
I wanted to ask if anyone knows what sort of time period this series came from?
When was it actually shown on TV?
Thanks
Ian Broadmore
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It was shown on TV but never released on video or DVD, what you have is an illegal copy from the TV series.
skullmaster
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Typical ebay. So, any idea when it went out on TV?
David Numen
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I know a guy on ebay is selling these but also Martin Duffy was selling them too - he had asked opinions on an online anti-piracy group. My opinion was that, although illegal, the shows were highly unlikely to be released commercially.


Posted: Sep 18, 2005 11:33am
---------------------------------------------
It was broadcast either 1984 or 1985.
skullmaster
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Many thanks for that, bartlewizard.
Ian Broadmore
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For your information, the shows will be released commercially as negotiations are on going at the moment with the copyright holders.
David Numen
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Given the number of guest stars on the series I'd be very surprised if it did manage to get released commercially, but it would certainly be a good thing if it did...the fraternity at large could get a somewhat more realistic portayal of Berglas effects!
jimtron
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Bartlewizard said:

Quote:
My opinion was that, although illegal, the shows were highly unlikely to be released commercially.


What does the legality of the discs have to do with whether they're ever released or not?
David Numen
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What it had to do with was whether anyone would be harmed by the release of the discs.

I personally don't see a problem with someone charging a small fee (provided it is small, the ebay Berglas discs can fetch some crazy prices) to put the shows on to disc, after all they were broadcast on television and it amounts to roughly the same as borrowing a tape. In fact given the number of American posters who have managed to see Derren Brown's UK transmitted shows I guess it's not an umcommon practice.

I saw the Berglas shows on original broadcast and if I had a video at the time I would have recorded them. As a collector I would be still be interested in an official DVD release regardless of whether I had the tapes, copied DVD or whatever.

To take another example, I am a fan of a series called Dr Who. There has been a new series which has not yet been sold to America but there is a reasonable fan base there. Many of that fan base have managed to see the new series, either by virtue of friends sending tapes or P2P downloading. A similar situation to when the recent Star Trek incarnations were being transmitted in the UK a couple of years behind the US transmissions so fans would get tapes sent over from American buddies. THose same people would still watch the series on TV AND buy official tapes/DVD's just as I am sure a large percentage of American Who fans will watch the series when/if it gets an official US broadcaster or buy it if it gets sold in the US, regardless of having already downloaded it or seen a borrowed tape.

This is not to justify tape swapping or P2P but to highlight a reality and to highlight how there are situations where the reality does not affect official sales.
Harry H
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If TV companies/production companies haven't released them officially in 20 years or more then I don't see the harm in buying off ebay. I have got Secret Cabaret and Penn & Teller TV shows from there, again 15 -20 years ago and still unreleased. Maybe it could start an influx of official releases. Then again, unlikely.
jimtron
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Buying an illicit disc that's not commercially available may not affect sales, but the seller is profiting while the creators get nothing (show producers, Berglas, etc.). This is like selling a bootleg record of a recording artist's unreleased material. I've heard that artists don't take kindly to it.
Slim King
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Maybe the Bootleggers are proving that there is a market for the videos? Therefore....a video release by the legit guys. See what I'm saying? Without the Bootleggers "Market Research" maybe no one would have bothered?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
David Numen
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Jimtron wrote:
Quote:
Buying an illicit disc that's not commercially available may not affect sales, but the seller is profiting while the creators get nothing (show producers, Berglas, etc.).

Bottom line - it was shown on TV, public domain at the time, and anyone with a video recorder at the time is entitled to have a copy. The creators got paid when they made the show. If/when there is an offcial release they can get further reward but it's a ludicrous situation when the show isn't being released (and given the presence of people like Christopher Lee I'd be very surprised if any company could afford the various royalties to get it released).
jimtron
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I realize it's legal to tape TV shows, but I was under the impression thath it was illegal to sell a recording of a TV show without permission. Also, in this case, apparently there will be a commercial release (according to Ian). As far as ethics, I guess we could contact Berglas and see if he thinks it's ethical or not.
David Numen
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Quote:
illegal to sell a recording of a TV show without permission

Technically, it's illegal to tape something and keep it for more than a certain length of time. However, as laws go it's next to impossible to enforce. Technically it's illegal to tape Derren Brown on TV in the UK and send it to a friend in the US BUT it happens (and many of our top names do it).

Quote:
Also, in this case, apparently there will be a commercial release

First I heard of there being a commercial release was on this thread - have you heard of an official announcement elsewhere? Until then I would treat it with skepticism. Besides, I already outlined quite clearly how such bootlegs need not have a major effect on official releases.

Quote:
As far as ethics, I guess we could contact Berglas and see if he thinks it's ethical or not

Perhaps, but it's not a question of ethics, is it? We're talking about a 20 year old TV show and provided that the person providing such a DVD takes only a small amount to cover their time and costs I see nothing greatly wrong with it. I do think the ebay guy is having a blast as I have seen the Berglas series fetch ridiculous sums of money but then that's because of how we, as magicians and mentalists, build up something into mythical proportions.

On that point I can say that the series blew me away as a 14 year old but have left me less than impressed as a 35 year old.
jimtron
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I have not hear an official announcement, no.

Yes, I think it is a question of ethics and legality, both. I'm not saying it's a heinous breach of ethics, but certainly there is an ethics issue here.

If the ebay seller is getting "ridiculous sums of money" I would bet that Berglas and/or the producers of the show would consider that unethical, because the ebay seller is profiting and Berglas and the producers don't see a penny.
David Numen
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Quote:
If the ebay seller is getting "ridiculous sums of money" I would bet that Berglas and/or the producers of the show would consider that unethical, because the ebay seller is profiting and Berglas and the producers don't see a penny.

Same thing happens regarding second hand books...on this very site there are many users who regularly buy the newest thing, get the secret and then re-sell it. Let's face it, there are many grey areas in any obsessive interest.

I do agree that the guy on ebay is out of order but so long as there are mugs out there willing to pay the price...
jimtron
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Selling used books is perfectly legal. Selling bootlegged TV shows is, I think, illegal.

As far as ethics, I agree that things get pretty gray with some of this stuff. But in my opinion, the ebay guy is acting unethically. If he contacted Berglas and the producers of the show and was granted permission by them, that would be a different story.
Slim King
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Selling "Copies" of anything without a copyright is illegal isn't it. Isn't that what Copy Right really means?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
jimtron
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That first sentence is confusing me (it doesn't take much). It's not illegal to sell a copy of something that isn't copyrighted. It is illegal to sell (or even distribute, in some cases) unauthorized copies of a copyrighted work, the way I understand it. But I'm not a lawyer or IP expert.

An article on copyright.
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