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John C
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I perform a routine with a large Dream Bag. I show it empty three times then pull the flower pot out of it. The problem with the Dream Bag is that most kids know how it works. It's on TV all the time.

I need a prop that can mimic the Dream Bag this way.

I would just like to replace it with something else.

Any ideas?

John
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KyletheGreat
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I have never had that problem...perhaps you just need to juice up the routine a little bit...ask yourself "why am I pulling these boxes out of this bag?"

My routine goes like this (in a nutshell):

It is a comedy card routine for me.

I have a deck and I have somebody choose a card. The card is put back in the deck and shuffled. Now I claim that I will attempt the impossible! I am going to cut directly to the chosen card!

I make a cut...but it is the wrong card...my mistake...lets try again, once again the wrong card...ooops...Once more...and it is still the wrong card...DOn't worry folks, there is 52 of them, we can do this all day...

After a few more incorrect cuts I claim that I have sealed in an envelope inside of my table, the chose card...I reveal the evelope and tear it open...wrong card.

Then I say I have the duplicate of your card only mine is much larger! (reach behind table and produce large card) This is your card? NO?????? It was the other big one...you see I had two shows today...(grab other big card)...hmmm, that is not it either.

Time to reach for the old insurance policy, all cards on the policy are exposed and none are correct...I say "DO YOU SEE ANYTHING YOU LIKE????IF YOU DO THEN JUST SAY SO!!!"

Nothing...

So I say "Okay, this is the last resort...(I grab the dream bag.)"In this bag, I have your card...what was it?" (card is named by crowd and spectator).

I look in the bag and shake it around (as if there is an entire deck in it [which is what the audience thinks so they giggle])

Then I show the bag to the crowd as I say "I know for a fact that I had you card in this bag before the show...do any of you guys see it in there?" (show bag empty)

(everyone yells NOOO)

Reach inside and produce the boxes and silks one by one, each time showing the bag empty again and asking myself "where did all this junk come from??? Let me clean this stuff out and maybe the card will be umderneath..."

After the last box, I reach in and grab a 36" silk with the forced card on it and (it is rolled up with cofetti) I ask once more "What was your card again?"

They tell me, I fling the silk, it unrolls, confetti flies, the crowd gasps, the silk is spread, the card is seen, and the crowd applauds.

Hope you like.

~Kyle~

p.s. Sometimes I like to throw in some comedy cards like 3 1/2 of clubs or a large 14 of diamonds...just for the cheap laughs.
Kyle Jarrard
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Ron Reid
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Hi John:

Yes, the trick is getting to a point of being seen too often. There are a number of clowns in my area that do the effect. Trouble is you once could only get it from Black Tie Magic in Asia. Now there are the cheap imitators from India and elsewhere selling them on ebay and just about everywhere else.

If you're looking for a piece of apparatus that can be repeatedly shown empty while still producing something, a Genie Tube will work very nicely.

In case you're not familiar with it, the Genie Tube opens up via a couple hinges so that you can show the inside very cleanly. There are different sizes so you have a choice on how much to produce. It's really for silks and streamers only, so you would be missing out on the boxes. But it's a big fooler - I don't think you'll have the problem you do with the Dream Bag.

Good luck - I hope this helps you.

Ron
magic4u02
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I still feel that even a trick if seen as a trick may not work or go over very well with any audience. However, as Kyle has nicely shown above, a trick can become entertaining and fun if you realize that the journey you take the kids on is often more enjoyable to them then the trick itself.

This is the case of the dream bag. If you have a great routine and use the children in an interactive fashion, then they will be too busy having fun with you and the routine to even care about the effect or trying to figure out if they have seen the secret before. Once children are deeply involved in a show of fun and laughter and good times, they really do tend to let down their guards and simply have fun with the show you are presenting.

Kyle
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KyletheGreat
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Kyle...that is amazing...that is the same philosophy I have had about magic for the longest time! I am always for entertaining before tricking. I find that it helps greatly in lowering the amount of hecklers.

People do not like to be tricked...but they do like to solve puzzles (which is basically a trick) However, people do like to be entertained...and when they are being entertained...they sit back, relax, and suck it all in without trying to be a know it all (in most cases).

So I say "perform your magic as an entertainment, and not a trick" I believe you will go further that way.
Kyle Jarrard
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magic4u02
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Kyle: Thanks for the kind words. I just find too many magicians try and perform their magic as mere tricks and not as entertainment. This then gets the children in a state where they are only focusing on how you did it and how they can beat you at figuring out your secrets.

To me, this is a totally wrong approach to your magic. If you can make for an entertaining experience, then the children and the audience starts to relax indeed and learns to just enjoy the fun journey you are taking them on. They begin to have fun with it and they totally forget about even wanting to know the secrets because they are too busy enjoying what you are sharing with them.

Kyle
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TOTALLY MAGIC
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Kyle
that is such a great routien, a lot of magicians just do the bag but you added a lot of differnt things to it which is so cool, I've never had a prob with kids finding out how its done but I would go with what the other kyle said about don't make a trick into a trick but into a routien.
kyle


P.S. wow 3 people named Kyle just posted on this one psot Frecky! LOL
magic4u02
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That is indeed freeky. I remember when I was the only Kyle I ever knew. For years I never came across another person named Kyle. Wow and today I meet a ton of them. Man I must be a pretty good magician afterall. hehe

Seriously, we as magicians really do need to strive to create magical entertanment and magical experiences through routines that engage our audiences in different ways.

Kyle (The Official and Original Kyle in the Red Jacket)
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John C
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I suppose I should have mentioned that the routtine I perform is a message. I don't really want to change the routine I just would like to see if I can substitute the prop for something else.

My point or question is not that kid's "find out" how the trick is done because of a poor performance? The original question was does anyone know of a substitute prop?

I have parents down here in Florida that have purchased this Dream Bag for kids for their birthdays. They sell them in every hotel in airports and Magic Masters etc. They are on TV.

I also believe that the effect is in the ride not the trick but I think the DB is overused and exposed.

So back to the original post:

Anyone have any ideas for substitutes for the DB?

Thanks Ron for the suggestion.

Thanks,

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
KyletheGreat
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Quote:
On 2005-09-18 21:18, TOTALLY MAGIC wrote:
Kyle
that is such a great routien, a lot of magicians just do the bag but you added a lot of differnt things to it which is so cool, I've never had a prob with kids finding out how its done but I would go with what the other kyle said about don't make a trick into a trick but into a routien.
kyle


P.S. wow 3 people named Kyle just posted on this one psot Frecky! LOL


Thank you black jacket Kyle. I am glad you like the routine. I do that with all my props...I try to get as much as I can in a different way out of each prop that I own by using them in strange, yet practical ways. Just like my coloring book routine that uses about 5 different wands, spring snakes, a coloring book, a tail coat, an appearing cane, a 6 color changing bag, and a box of crayons with a false bottom! It is a long but successful routine that I am proud of.

Anyways, johncesta, I have not seen the dream bag performed on television...well I did once and it was on a kid talent show thing...that is it. I have never found anybody that knew how the beautiful prop works. I was unaware that they are sold everywhere in florida just because they are on television...seems like quite an expensive gift for a childs birthday if you ask me(unless the cheap version is bought)! What kind of substitute are you asking for? Are you wanting something else you can pull big things out of or what? Perhaps you could give us the message and we could help you find a prop that could also be used to apply your message.

Kyle (Founder of the official Red Jacket Wearing Kyle Club)
Kyle Jarrard
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Ron Reid
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Hi John:

Can you give more details on the message you're telling? Also, do you require that the production apparatus (like the bag) be shown empty between each production? Lastly, do you need the produced items to be (or at least, appear to be) solid, or will silk productions work for you.

Ron
John C
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[quote]On 2005-09-19 15:46, KyletheGreat wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-09-18 21:18, TOTALLY MAGIC wrote:
kyle


Anyways, johncesta, I have not seen the dream bag performed on television...well I did once and it was on a kid talent show thing...that is it. .

Kyle (Founder of the official Red Jacket Wearing Kyle Club)


I guess if you don't have kids you may not watch the disney channel like most kids do. I am not sure what the program is but it's a section where they highlite kids and their parents. It shows a kid who does magic and his Dad helps him. The dream bag is one of the tricks. The program is played over and over and over.

In my market the kids are rich ... or their parent's are. They buy them anything. The kids have been exposed to a lot of entertainment etc. Not all of them but a lot. The small dream bag is one of those items the other one that a lot of the kids have down here is the drawer box.


Anyway. I like the Dream bag concept where you can show the bag empty then pull out an item. Doing this three times is perfect. I just would like a different prop to use.

So, it's the same simple concept as the Dream Bag - show empty three times then produce an item. The item doesn't have to be big but a silk is not what I would prefer to produce.

Thanks,

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
John C
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Quote:
On 2005-09-19 15:59, Ron Reid wrote:
Hi John:

Can you give more details on the message you're telling? Also, do you require that the production apparatus (like the bag) be shown empty between each production? Lastly, do you need the produced items to be (or at least, appear to be) solid, or will silk productions work for you.

Ron


It's a message on Responsibility. The Dream Bag is ok for my message I would just prefer something different.

Yea, the same concept as the Dream Bag - show empty three times and produce an item. Not a silk however. Something like the Dream bag item. But I would find an appropriate item to produce.
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KyletheGreat
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[quote]On 2005-09-21 13:18, johncesta wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-09-19 15:46, KyletheGreat wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-09-18 21:18, TOTALLY MAGIC wrote:
kyle


Anyways, johncesta, I have not seen the dream bag performed on television...well I did once and it was on a kid talent show thing...that is it. .

Kyle (Founder of the official Red Jacket Wearing Kyle Club)


I guess if you don't have kids you may not watch the disney channel like most kids do. I am not sure what the program is but it's a section where they highlite kids and their parents. It shows a kid who does magic and his Dad helps him. The dream bag is one of the tricks. The program is played over and over and over.

In my market the kids are rich ... or their parent's are. They buy them anything. The kids have been exposed to a lot of entertainment etc. Not all of them but a lot. The small dream bag is one of those items the other one that a lot of the kids have down here is the drawer box.


Anyway. I like the Dream bag concept where you can show the bag empty then pull out an item. Doing this three times is perfect. I just would like a different prop to use.

So, it's the same simple concept as the Dream Bag - show empty three times then produce an item. The item doesn't have to be big but a silk is not what I would prefer to produce.

Thanks,

John


Actually...I have seen that commercial type thing...where the kid and his dad does magic together. But there are a lot more tricks shown in that segment besides the dream bag alone...I highly doubt that really majorly effects the dream bag market. But I believe you.

Perhaps you could use a square cirlce for your method? Show it empty and pull large stuff out of it?
Kyle Jarrard
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http://www.kylesmagic.com
http://www.hypnobilly.com
John C
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<qoute>
I highly doubt that really majorly effects the dream bag market. But I believe you.

</quote>

LOL!


Sorry, didn't mean to imply that the Dream Bag market is affected to such an extent. Maybe I'm just tired of the Dream Bag and I want somehting to take it's place. So, thanks for the options.

John Smile
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
hugmagic
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Just a thought but could it be done in a jap box fashion but decorate the box to look like a paper mil carton?

Richard
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Ron Reid
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John:

Another option is the Appearing Hexagon effect. Stevens Magic used to carry, but I just saw it at http://www.practical-magic.com

Basically, you produce these 3-dimensional hexagons from two flat pieces of wood (or cardboard). I've neve seen it performed, but it looks intriguing, and I don't think you'll have to worry about it being exposed. It is expensive.

Ron
Donald Dunphy
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If I understand what Ron is talking about, these items are made in the U.S. by Dock Haley Gospel Magic. Here's a link to a production item they...... Truth."

You get 12 golden nuggets which are 5” sextuple boxes.

I've also seen the same item for sale at Steve Hart's Magic2Motivate website (for motivational magic use), and I think it is also the same item that Barry Mitchell uses for part of his "King Midas" routine.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Ron Reid
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Hi Donald:

It's different from the Nuggets. You can see it by going to practical magic's website, and looking under the "general magic" section. It's about the third item down - there is a photo.

I think part of apparatus is the special production boards you get with the hexagons.

Ron
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