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Gede Nibo
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....simply different branches of the SAME tree...

I hold office in both schools, and am humbly well learned.
Bill Ligon
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On 2005-10-11 21:23, Gede Nibo wrote:
....simply different branches of the SAME tree...

I hold office in both schools, and am humbly well learned.


I do not disagree. I merely wished to point out there is some difference. They both grew out of similar situations, and in both ancient wisdom survives.
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CarlD
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I just posted elsewhere on this T-Ray, but see Spellbound.dk for a really nice line in handmade voodoo dolls, all one-offs. You might also want to try asking them if they'll tell you about a forthcoming Voodoo trick from Harling & Nyrup called 'Concipio' they're publishing. I've seen it and used it but am sworn to secrecy. I think the commercial version will be out before Xmas. *** clever:)

CarlD
Doug Higley
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One need not be deeply versed Santaria or Voudun-ian inclined to add a little generic 'ooga booga' to any routine. These are religions taken seriously by their respective practitioners but some 'elements' can be borrowed for entertainment purposes and not tread on traditional toes. I thing Gede would agree...most religions when truely grounded have room for a sense of humor and a grin or two.

I was just PM talking with an American Indian performer about such and I remembered some teachings I recieved at a Pow Wow some years ago.

The ancient Hopi religion involving the Kachina Dancers (as in the Dolls) was a rather serious affair when the spirits left the Mesa Tops and set up the forthcoming seasons etc....well part of the ceremonies involved Clowns...(these can sometimes be found in shops and by the better Indian Artists.) These 'Clowns' had the sole purpose of entertaining the children (and some bored adults I'm sure) who would get figity during the lengthy ceremonial practices. They would dance around pulling pranks and do 'bad things' like spitting watermellon seeds at the people. (If you find a Kachina Doll with a watermellon or watermellon theme...there ya go!)

Those of us on the 'outside' of traditional voodoo can only look to the commercial aspects such as is seen in movies etc for inspiration...the word VooDoo doesn't even have to be used and in many instances the word Shaman has come to replace the voodoo image and gear the story more toward jungle tribal magic etc.

I remember about 5 or 6 years ago I ran into a Peruvian Indian Shaman in Tijuana...he was practicing his art on the street (!) and for $6 you got the full treatment. It was facinating and fun and while he took his 'performance' very seriously he allowed a smile or too at my reactions to his feathers and oils etc.
Funny thing he asked me to tell him what I most wanted (through an interperter) and I told him in my usual off kilter manner...that "I felt like I was circling the drain" and that I had recently been initially diagnosed with something pretty terrible (MIS-diagnosed it turns out) and I would like my health to continue to be good for a long time...so I'll say this for the old boy...I haven't been sick or ill or anything but '5 star' since. Anyway...after he was done, I did a few 'tricks' of my own for him and he was grinning ear to ear but also showed some signs of AWE. It was a good trade. Smile

Voodoo as I see it (as an outsider) is much about manipulation of another's thoughts and actions...no different from most magic really...in fact I even use it when doing a Pen thru Bill! I tell them I will cause their mind to see something that is not real...and then follow it with a center tear out of the same bill...which finishes up of course with the same bill whole and un- damaged...they must have had their mind manipulated...Voodoo...ooooh...in that light ANYTHING can be turned around and a bit of ooga booga can be added. Which of course is the basis for the Dark Museum....the power and influences of the Artifacts move the story.

Fun stuff.

Doug
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Mystician
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Lol ! Doug trading magic with a Peruvian Shaman ! I would loved to have seen that !
Or any of you, for that matter. East magic (South?) meets West magic kind of thing.

I keep thinking about that hypnosis angle, ever since Docc brought it up once more at the NE Convention.
I suppose one could use hypnosis as their entire angle to magic, if they wanted to.
Play it entirely as mind manipulation, rather than defying the laws of physics.
I think it makes a lot of effects certainly more believeable.. hmm
Definitely a way to play with someone's head.
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drwilson
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Eugene Burger has a nice Voodoo Doll routine in Spirit Theater.

I also encourage you to read Corinda's Thirteen Steps to Mentalism.

You might also enjoy the Fitzkee trilogy, and Magic and Showmanship by Henning Nelms.

One of the core ideas of Voodoo in the public imagination is sympathetic magic. You do something to a symbol or representation of a person, and something similar happens to the person represented. Because you don't want to harm people while performing, you can represent an object. Holes can get burned through cards, stuffed dolls might leak stuffing when a pin is stuck into a drawing of the doll, and so forth. The basic magic effect is the transformation of objects from an undamaged to a damaged state.

We might also think of animations. Animation of a doll is good, which is why everyone likes the Okito doll. Many psychic or spirtualistic effects involve animation, and might be framed as Voodoo effects.

Even predictions can be framed as successful attempts to control the mind of a volunteer using magic, as in Doug Higley's Dark Museum.

Creepy props and some knowledge of Voodoo are important!

Yours,

Paul
Gede Nibo
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Legba, Gede (the same spirit) is the King of the Voudou pantheon...he is the TRIXSTER of all TRIXSTER...represents Life and all of the unpredictablities therein...

Gede is the spirit you see on the corner doing his dance for a couple of dollars...too is Gede doing his magic busking for the same dollar...looking at you to make the sacrifice of your petty monies...seeing if you are willing to part with your material mind for a moment...

Gede laughs that haughty laugh, loves to trick everyone all the time...He represents the very Illusion of "This"...he is the Magician, no doubt...

everything is Hilarious to Gede and his personalities...this whole board is FULL of Legba/Gede personalities...we get our fill on tricking, decieving...and this can, ironically, be used to uplift the sloth, the egoist, the one holding on desperately to the raft of Logic in order to preserve sanity, order...

well, alas, we come to disrupt, even if momentarily, the order, the Logic of the ordinary mind...
Doug Higley
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Good stuff Gede!!!! I need to get out more!

Mystician says: "Play it entirely as mind manipulation, rather than defying the laws of physics."

I do this alot..it's really fun...especially to the specs that are standing by watching...they see the same thing happening as to the one I'm focusing on...it's all mind control not gimmicks or breaking the laws of physics...very spooky to the average person...the Shadow knows! Smile
It's a fun 'explanation' to them as well...they see something impossible so rather than a techniological trick being surmised, having their mind messed with is an easy answer. What else could it be? leaves 'em 'thinking'.
heh heh heh.
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beyrevra
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Voodoo Doll in Santeria ???????
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Gede Nibo
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Not per se, but in the Palo, they have ways similar...

thanks Brother Doug...it goes on and on, the Gede concept...
beyrevra
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I know some rare ritual magic santero with figurines of wax, but not in the direction headstocks voodoo with needles. (love, health....) Smile
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Gede Nibo
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If I am a Santero, and I use a Voodoo doll, then I am just a Santero using a Voodoo doll...

I think that these schools were built upon many thoughts and ideas, customs and rituals, and take what is needed where and when...

eg., some Santero use Buddha image, whilst others shun this...its depends on the individual and his/her understanding of the Whole.
Bill Ligon
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...and not everyone has even heard of Palo Mayombe!
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
Gede Nibo
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Have you? it is known as the "left hand" path of Santeria, not unlike the path of the Tantrik who sits atop a dead body and chants mantra...
T-RAY
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Gede, could you get your book out already? It sounds like you have a great background and great ideas. I want to hear more about Tantriks on top of dead bodies....what's that about?
Doug Higley
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I second that!
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beyrevra
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In "Krypts Quaterly Crier" Volume 4, Issue 2, p 11, you can see my routine using the Okito Voodoo doll under the title Soul' S Trip. (Loth Christian is my other name)
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T-RAY
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Thanks!
rosfrog
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Quote:
On 2005-09-21 09:13, Gede Nibo wrote:
You can turn ANY effect into a "VOODOO" styled feat...

so what you need to do is RESEARCH the history, the roots of our beloved science, and learn to respectfully incorporate the Loa into your presentation.

some books (not tricks):

SECRETS OF VOODOO by Milo Rigaurd

DIVINE HORSEMAN by Maya Deren



I agree wholeheartedly - research and find out about Vodou then you can theme your effects accordingly. The two books mentioned are good, I also place a recommendation for 'Vodou in Haiti' by Alfred Metraux, it's very good.

Allan
Mystician
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Quote:
On 2005-10-27 18:50, Doug Higley wrote:
I second that!


I third that !
The paradoxical thing about Ba.. er, Gede, is that you know he's a Master by way of his unassuming humbleness. That requires a certain peace of mind and confidence.
Just hanging out with the rest of my fellow dregs.
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