The fact that the 3-year old couldn't pay attention shouldnt even figure in. I'll perform for a 1-week old if that's what theyre willing to pay me for.

I do however, make certain adjustments to my fee based on certain criteria. Day cares are notourious for having little or no budget, so, when I mail info to the little independent 'Mom & Pop' daycares, I include a coupon giving them a discount, then after they've seen the quality of my show, they'll (hopefully) be willing to pay full price next time.

There's also the Disney 'Kid's Village', run by the make-a-wish foundation for terminally ill children. I've accepted free pizza & soda, I've received park tickets, but I could NEVER accept money from this place. (not that they've ever offered $, but just as well)

Good one, Frank

Thank you, Christopher, neither I nor my good pal Adam Smith could have written it any better.

Anybody else remember Lowell from "Wings?" The airplane mechanic who had one price for every job: $25,000. Nobody ever paid it, of course, but when asked why he kept asking for that amount, the response was, "All I need is one..."

I agree you should sleep well!-In my own opinion on the matter

You pointed out all the different points to the Parents-Very Important-well done!

You have paid for your time & props so should be compensated for a good show

But...

I would seriously consider not doing this for this age group unless the children are sitting on parents laps!!


How can you reason doing a good show if the kids were not even watching!!
I think the parents were oblivious to what was really required even though as you said you tried to talk them out of it!!-Good for you!

Next time double your price & talk the parents out of it!!-have 4-5 yr old min age

Forget 3 yr old shows -They don't remember,they don't concentrate & cannot sit still for very long-Wheres the satisfaction in that

You probably got your tip for the hassle-not for a good show

Even David Ginn does not attempt this age group too often

Im not referring to your show but I cringe when I see Magicians acting like 3 yr olds trying to talk above the noise at 2-3 yr old parties & at Malls etc while the kids are getting distracted & more interested in whats going on outside or wrestling there buddy beside them!!!!

The problem is that Parents who are also business people in the real world now think all Magicians are like this & for some of us that perform in Theatres & clubs with full shows it is very difficult at times to convince organisers in corporate scenes that not all Magicians are for Kids!

Hope it all works out well for you

Why should you feel bad to take the money??? They know your price, and it was their decision....

Magixx

Probably a good idea but they'll become cranky and want "down" far too soon ... unless you believe exactly what you have warned the parents ... the young 'uns are gonna pay no attention AT ALL (the show is really for the parents).



That's possible - I try to have something that will at least engage the little guys somewhat: "pet the bunny" - "here's a bright yellow ball for your birthday gift" - "would you like to draw your favorite food? (Axtell Drawing Board) ["What's that squiggle you just drew, Jimmy?" "A circle!" "He likes to eat CIRCLES, let's hear it for Jimmy! Who wants to draw next?"]



I find every week's Monday morning bank deposit VERY satisfying!



That's why you don't do MAGIC for them at all ... just use all your other entertainment skills, accept the inattention, take the money and run.

When I first started some magicians were upset with what I was charging. They believed I was under cutting their price and hurting thier business. Of course I explained to them that I was just getting started and hadn't performed as many shows as them and didn't feal I was worth what they were charging. As I progressed I increased my price and now after years of shows I charge at least the same if not more than other magicians because I know my show is worth it and the customer will be satisfied at whatever cost and I should not under cut local magicians price just to steal a show. Maybe your friend is in the same position and feals that he's not worth or good enough to charge what you do. Just a thought.

Rossmacrae-

Some Good points -Thank you

"That's why you don't do MAGIC for them at all ... just use all your other entertainment skills, accept the inattention, take the money and run."
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I guess we're becoming babysitters more than Magicians!!

I don't see the point in performing 5-6 or more shows to earn $1000 when you can double this in 1 cabaret show for the same effort!

My Hat is off to all the cool performers who can entertain 3 yr olds at parties-Well done on a tough market!!

On the original topic question-You were right to take the money! as you did the right thing in explaining everything to the parents beforehand-Sleep well!!

Cheers

As long as you are honest about what your show is and who it entertains...book and charge as much as you want. For me, my age limit is 3 year olds. I can keep them occupied for my full 45 minutes (I do work hard).

If the parent says that there will mainly be age 2 and below, I suggest a character or some other act, warning the parents that that age will not sit too long for anything.

My recommendation is that you charge more for 3 years olds than 5 year olds, as they are harder work. Tell this to your client, and you may be surprised at their reaction. You can tell them when their child turns 4 or 5, the fee will be less, as the work is less. Stands to reason in any other business.....why not ours?

I'm nowhere near being a good enough magician to charge anybody ANYTHING to perform for them, in fact I should be paying people to bear with my sloppy card and coin handling.

However, I have been a musician for many years now, and my opinion is, I spent such a long time woodshedding, constantly practicing, playing in dives, paying my dues, playing for free, and .....what the heck is wrong with making some money?

The artist and the artisan should be (and luckily sometimes are) held in high regard. Magic and music fall into this category. I say, keep charging what you feel you're worth. You're doing yourself and the rest of us a disservice if you don't.

Good Luck!!

Absolutely.

I would disagree that magic and music are held in the same regard in what we call the arts. It is really sad, but magic is looked upon as being one of the lesser artforms on the arts totem pole. It is just the sad truth.

Music and dance and theater and opera are all higher artforms that are looked upon in a much different light then magic is. This is not to say that magic can not be a higher artform. It can be and we should always strive to bring it to a higher artform whenever we can. It just is not viewed that way in the publics eye.

Kyle

I think it depends on the quality and caliber of the show. Of course that goes for music, too. I think many magic shows could benefit from becoming more sophisticated. Refinement. Trimming it down to a consistently solid and effective show. Keep raising the bar.

Here's a question to clear up the debate about music and magic. Which get hired more for festivals, fairs, fundraisers.... A band will always win over a magic act.

I remember entering a talent contest. I won second place performing magic. I was even told by the judges that I would of won 1st place (I was more entertaining), if it were not for the fact that the winner got to perform on stage at a fair. They didn't know how a magic show would sell. I actually took their response as a great compliment and told them I understood why. I said I agreed that music can reach outside of the performing area as it is audible, whereas magic is visually based.

It is a shame that magic is not regaurded at the same level in the performing arts as musicians, singers, theater and the like. We still have such a long way to go. However, I know there are those out there that really strive to raise the level of the art of magic through really giving their audiences so much more then what laymen have come to expect of magicians.

The only thing we can do is strive to change the perception one gig at a time and spend the time to really refine what it is we are doing and showing our audiences. We can not be afriend to push our magic into new directions and not just copy what has already been done before us.

Kyle

What a wonderful thread...
I totally agree that music and magic are not equal according to public perception. I sometimes fee that it's in the basic differences. As an art form music reaches into our innnermost soul, pulling out a lot of emotion. Magic COULD and often CAN do this, but oftentimes does'nt either A)Because the performer did'nt do the performance at that level (or did'nt want to) B) People walk into a magic show not ready to have their heartstrings pulled on, and looking at it as a "puzzle-amusement show".
Of course these are only theories. I feel really blessed to have patrons who buy my shows over and over, and people who just call from hearing about me (by either ad or word of mouth).
I agree with Kyle, it's up to us to change the general public's limited perception and raise it to another level.
Chris

I think the problem is several really. One of the biggest is indeed the perception people have of just what a magician is and what a magician represents. Already in a laymens view, magic is supposed to be a certain way, performed by a certain person. The problem is that often this perception is really further from the truth of what we magicians WANT our magic to be seen as.

If this is the case, then it is up to us to change this perception, even if it may take us a lot of effort to do so. It can be changed if one is willing to work hard at it to change their magic and present it in new and different ways that expands and grows the art of magic instead of recreating what has already been done before.

In many cases, we magicians face an uphill battle every time we go out and perform.Our audiences see bad magicians and bad perfomers and from this they develop a flase and misconceived notion of what magic is all about.

However, I feel the first key to overcoming this poor and misconceived notion is to understand what these perceptions are in the first place. A performer could benefit a lot from researching this and finding out just what the target audience really thinks about magicians and magic as a whole. Once this information is gathered, it can be better understood and therefore you are better informed on how best to tackle it. Once you know what people's perception of magic is, you can create your own brand of magic so that it best answers these questions and confronts them head on.

We as magicians have to stop the thinking that magic is about fooling people and make sure that we and our audiences know that magic is about entertaining them. We should never be on stage performing only for ourselves, we should be performing for the audience at all times. Just because you love a trick or a prop, does not mean it is right for you, your character or your show. You must have discipline to not perform things that do not grow you and the magic you do.

We also have to commit ourselves to growth and not be so much in a hurry to go out there and charge for what we do if we really are not ready to take that step. If I am to expand and grow myself and my magic, I need to take the time and dedicate it to understanding and learning not only the effects I want to perform, but how those effects can be changed and reflect my own stage personna, style and character. I need to remember that the trick is just a trick. It is the journey I take my audiences on that tends to be even more important then the overall trick itself.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Kyle