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MaGiShN46
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You see all these magicians that are amsters at sleight of hand on cards and cards alone. From my experience laymen don't care about sleight of hand what the want is the magic that they can relate to. They see cards as "Card Tricks." A lot of these people have read a few books on card tricks and can do some of their own. This is why I stay away from card tricks and only do magic with objects like stuff they would carry around or something you could buy ie. a pen or salt shaker. You can do marvelous magic with these things and I THINK that this is a better way to show close-up magic and street

Thanks
Jaz
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When I first started studying magic I had similar thoughts about cards and
for a long time I avoided card tricks.
After a couple of requests for card tricks I decided to learn a few card tricks.
Cards can be addictive because there's so many effects you can do.
Effects using mentalism, color changes and animating cards and others can come off as magical rather than sleight of hand tricks.

To this day I don't carry a deck on a daily basis but will borrow one if available.

Doing magic with ordinary(or what appears to be ordinary), every day objects is something I prefer also.
In more formal situations I like close up using cards, uncommon coins and other props.

It's worthwhile to learn a few strong card tricks, and fun too.
To each their own.
Pachin
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I agree with Jaz. There are a couple of effects with cards that are pretty strong and look very magical. For example the ambitious card routine or triumph. I am sure there is more but this is what I concentrate on as wel a couple of more.

What I do not like about some long effects with cards is that they looks more like you are kind of like making an assembly of something. A lot of lay people have told me that to much shuffle and movments with the hands looks to obvious.

I guess we have to keep balance between the different props that we use and not just focus on showing effects with one thing.
Dannydoyle
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Anyone who holds this opinion simply has not watched someone like Bill Malone or Eddie Fecter do card tricks.

Point is cards are ordinary objects. People know what they look like almost universally so they are nice to use.

Learn to be entertaining and not depend so much on what you are entertaining with. Be it cards, coins, or doves just be entertaining and you will be fine. The problem lies in the lack of entertainment NOT in the props being used.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Frank Tougas
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Actually until the crest of Texas Hold 'em, cards had kind of fallen from favor in average video game households. Thank goodness they have once again become "everyday ordinary objects." I agree with both sides on this one. Cards can be downright boring only entertaining to the "card expert' who will do endless tricks and not notice the only person enjoying them is themselves. I don't do a lot of card tricks but I have maybe ten I do well, enjoy doing and get a good response from. I would never do them all at a sitting but prefer to balance my set with coins, cards, maybe some ropes and cups and balls.

In each effect the cards actually do something unique, such as Card Warp, Big Deal,
Rising Cards, Stabbed in the Pack, color change, Face to Face Aces and some I really have no name for but get a good response. I've often thought it would be a great lecture, "Card tricks for people who hate card tricks".

That is what is so great about magic. It is diverse in the areas one might choose. You can specialize or be a generalist, a prop comedian or a bizzarest (sp?) and somehow you will find a niche and a great group of people who thinks as you do.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Corey Harris
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It's Kind of funny. I have always considered myself a card guy. But more and more recently I work on things and do things that are not card related. Even when I have created things it has had nothing to do with cards. I think Magic with cards can be an amazing expeirience for a lay person, But I also believe that you should never start with a card effect. Of course cards are worth it. But I believe that magicians should dabble in other magic as well, otherwise they may bore their audience. Even with me if a magician were to come up to and show me a card effect I would probally not be very drawn into the expeirience. If they were to start off with some coin stuff or some thing that is borrowed from me I would be more drawn into the magic. that's just my thoughts on this.
kcedelcycib
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Bermuda triangle trick form "Impuzzibilites". Folks sure get mad tryin to figure it out!
Al Schneider
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I am often asked if some trick is good or what do I think of this idea or that idea.

My standard response is, "What do real people think of it."

If people like it then do it.

I do not particularly like cards. Yet, I usually begin my close-up act with cards. While I am waiting for the audience to get their chairs, I do flourishes with the cards. It just works well for me. When they are settled, I do an ambitions routine. It just gets me going. It is like a cup of coffee in the morning. Some say that card flourishes suggest that you have skill with your fingers that informs the audience what you might be doing. Well, then move slower and let the see that you are not doing anything. True skill is in the mind not in the hands.

Yes, most card tricks are boring. Well, a lot of coin tricks are boring also. Someone once said, "I get five minutes out of a finger chopper." Hmmmm, sounds boring to me. Then, maybe it works for that person.

Al
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Alan Munro
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My favorite card routine has a lot of interaction with the audience. I think that's what makes the routine. When you're not so dependant on a prop to keep someone's interest, and create a situation, you can build a routine with just about anything.
miky
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My experience supports what most of the contributors to this discussion seem to be saying. I love learning and doing card magic, but it's a tough sell to the general public. Virtually all of the magic I do is impromptu (i.e., appears impromptu), and I find magic with a borrowed coin, bill, finger ring, coffee cup, etc. gets a far stronger response than any card magic.

I never start with card tricks, do them only if asked, and use ony borrowed decks. I've found that you need to know some strong card effects that are light on sleights because the decks you are handed in an impromptu situation can be so incredibly worn and dirty that even the most basic sleights are risky.
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2005-09-29 14:21, MaGiShN46 wrote:
You see all these magicians that are amsters at sleight of hand on cards and cards alone. From my experience laymen don't care about sleight of hand what the want is the magic that they can relate to. They see cards as "Card Tricks." A lot of these people have read a few books on card tricks and can do some of their own. This is why I stay away from card tricks and only do magic with objects like stuff they would carry around or something you could buy ie. a pen or salt shaker. You can do marvelous magic with these things and I THINK that this is a better way to show close-up magic and street

Thanks

Well, try thinking outside the box...do something like this: Punch holes in the card and move the holes around with your finger ala Mike Powers, or have a selected card transform itself into a book of matches ala Jay sakey.
Rip the card into pieces ala Daniel Garcia or many others.

Cause the entire deck to instantly transform color from red to blue.

Draw a scribble on the card and have the scribble instantly and magicallly transform it self into a spectators name ala Richard Sanders, or have a card vanish and end up inside a pack of gum ....

Purchase some Paul Harris books and find the card magic gold in them, or learn some Monte effects.
Get some of the Gregory Wilson DVDs and learn how he "kills" with the pasteboards.
Get some of the Michael Ammar easy to master card miracle DVds and learn some of that stuff..get some of th Michael close DVDs and learn the Frog Prince, or any of his miracles with the pasteboards. THEN tell us cards are don't interest laymen.

There are a lot of things you could do, but the point with is cards you can floor people if you know your stuff, and if you stay away from the old "you pick a card and I'll find it" plot. Cards are a world in themselves, and the possibilities for blowing your spectator's minds without a hint of boredom are infinite. They stop only with your imagination
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Frank Tougas
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You are kind of proving my point Doug. Cards become interesting when they do something cards do not ordinarily do. Unfortunately, most card people, while doing some fantastic sleights, finger flinging, and creative card work, make themselves the star rather than the cards. Unnoticed by many who specialize in cards, this brand of what I call "static card tricks" (where the deck does nothing out of the ordinary - as opposed to simply tagging them as find a card tricks)Can cause many spectators eyes to slowly glaze over and their thoughts turn to what they'd like to eat for dinner.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
daffydoug
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Agreed, Frank.

But you know, as for effects in which the cards "do what they don't ordinarily do", in other words contravene the physical laws of this world, there really is no dearth of them. They are actually quite plentious if one takes the time to search them out, as I have. These effects are quite visual in nature, and many times outright eye-popping! Couple an eye popping card effect with a seasoned performer who knows how to entertain, and you have a winning combination that can't fail to please even the most discrimanting of audiences.

The venerable Bill Malone comes to mind here. I have never once seen him lose the interest of his audience while performing with cards. No, not once.

To ingeminate, the only true limits are one's imagination...or lack thereof.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Dannydoyle
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Glad someone besides me earlier mentioned Bill in this thread. What you guys seem to have a problem with is bad magic.


AGREED! But how many times have you seen some guy who dismally floats a bill on a thread in which it looks as if it is hanging by a thread? Or a zombie that looks like a ball on a stick? Worse yet someone pushing boxes arround and trying to act all Copperfield?

Bad magic bites plain and simple. The fact that you are using cards makes no difference.

The thing is MORE bad card guys are arround true, BUT an entertainer is just that. BIll is a fantastic entertainer plain and simple. Cards are not boring, the guy using them is.

Oh and cards ARE every day objects. They have been forever. Many houses in America have them. They are a part of almost every culture in the civilized world. No matter what WE think of them.

Tell me that cards are NOT every day objects and then pull out a chop cup. Or some copper cups and balls, or sponge rabbits. Kind of more likely that a person will have a deck of cards in their house as opposed to 3 copper cups isn't it?

Again it is the person who is not entertaining and NOT The tools he is using. A scalpel is a scaplel. The doctor is the one who makes it a useful tool.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Amir
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I got off my card-addiction. Finally. All I do know is coin stuff and completely impromptu stuff.

Thanks a lot Card-Counters Anonymous!
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2005-10-01 23:35, Dannydoyle wrote:
Glad someone besides me earlier mentioned Bill in this thread. What you guys seem to have a problem with is bad magic.


AGREED! But how many times have you seen some guy who dismally floats a bill on a thread in which it looks as if it is hanging by a thread? Or a zombie that looks like a ball on a stick? Worse yet someone pushing boxes arround and trying to act all Copperfield?

Bad magic bites plain and simple. The fact that you are using cards makes no difference.

The thing is MORE bad card guys are arround true, BUT an entertainer is just that. BIll is a fantastic entertainer plain and simple. Cards are not boring, the guy using them is.

Oh and cards ARE every day objects. They have been forever. Many houses in America have them. They are a part of almost every culture in the civilized world. No matter what WE think of them.

Tell me that cards are NOT every day objects and then pull out a chop cup. Or some copper cups and balls, or sponge rabbits. Kind of more likely that a person will have a deck of cards in their house as opposed to 3 copper cups isn't it?

Again it is the person who is not entertaining and NOT The tools he is using. A scalpel is a scaplel. The doctor is the one who makes it a useful tool.


Man, I have to admit that you really elaborated on some fine points that just seem to sum up the truth of this whole thing. There is not a whole lot one can add to what you said. It was quite succint and pointed.

Thanks!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Jaz
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The original poster says he (she?) only does
"magic with objects like stuff they would carry around"
and mentions street and closeup magic.
In the street cards are not everyday objects.

For close up in homes.
Yes, most homes will have a deck of cards and a few card tricks should be learned.

I may be wrong but I'm seeing the poster as someone who does not want cause any suspicion whatsoever and holds onto the totally impromptu vision. It may be overkill but that's the poster's choice.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2005-09-29 14:21, MaGiShN46 wrote:
You see all these magicians that are amsters at sleight of hand on cards and cards alone. From my experience laymen don't care about sleight of hand what the want is the magic that they can relate to. They see cards as "Card Tricks." A lot of these people have read a few books on card tricks and can do some of their own. This is why I stay away from card tricks and only do magic with objects like stuff they would carry around or something you could buy ie. a pen or salt shaker. You can do marvelous magic with these things and I THINK that this is a better way to show close-up magic and street

Thanks


Jaz, could you then tell me why he mentions a salt shaker? I don't find a lot of people carrying those arround in my part of the country. As a matter of fact I have been all over MOST of the country and world for that matter and NEVER found anyone with one. Never really asked but still.

You are much more likely to find a deck of cards rather than a salt shaker.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
daffydoug
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Why didn't I catch that one?

I think a lot of us were just responding to the title of the topic, which basicly asked if card effects are even worth it in the first place.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
MaGiShN46
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I don't pull a salt shaker out of my pocket id use it off the table in a restaurant or something....


however... I did know a magician who carried around a salt shaker in his pocket!
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