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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
It just never ends.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
I've met Josh on more than one occasion and he has always been exceptionally helpful, very knowledgable, and also very humble(not arrogant).
Most magic(especially coin magic) DOES SUCK(and I perform plenty of coin magic) Saying most of it sucks is not the same as saying it all sucks. Magic is an art, and 95% of any art will always suck, and I think magic is much higher.... that just means it is HARD to perform something correctly, and thank god someone has the balls to say it. Anyway, Everyone will think what they want, but Josh is a true proffesional and at all the lectures/events I've seen him at, he's never bashed coin magic, only badly performed coin magic. -daegs |
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Corey Harris Inner circle Kansas City, MO 1229 Posts |
I just returned from Mr. Jay's lecture and having dinner with him here in KC. I think it was as great lecture and so did every one that attended. Not once did he say that Coin magic sucks. I can however agree with him about coin moves looking like moves and the awkward grips for coins.
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Darwin Ortiz V.I.P. 486 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-09 14:42, nostrings wrote: I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest a possible reason. When people finish a hard day’s work, they’re usually tired. They look forward to going home to rest. After doing a two-hour magic lecture (which I can tell you from experience is very hard work), answering countless questions, signing books, etc., the last thing you want to do is hang around a magic shop. Hanging around a magic shop is probably your idea of fun and relaxation. However, for a magic celebrity, hanging around a magic shop is work. It means being “on.” That’s because you’re the center of attention; you have to answer question after question; you're expected to provide free lessons; and your slightest action is liable to end up being criticized on the Internet. You said, “Joshua's magic was great his originality was impressive.” If that’s the case, he fulfilled his part of the bargain. When a lecture is over, it’s over. Your job is done and you have every right to leave. (If you’re girlfriend is waiting for you, you have even more motivation to leave.) Attending a magic lecture doesn’t give you an endless claim on the lecturer’s time. Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz |
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Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
Well said!
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
As much as I agree with Andrew that this thread has just about run its course, I can't let it go at this. So in the interests of achieving some sort of balance before we let this go, let me add:
While I have not delivered half the lectures Darwin has, I can certainly understand his feelings. It's a job, and you can't demand a professional to stick around after the job's done. Thankfully, a good many lecturers can and do spend the extra time, because it's a job we enjoy. Because the job should be approached in a professional manner, however, I cannot agree with the sentiment that seems to underlie many of the posts here, that being that "the customer is always wrong". Regardless of how far he travelled, or how much or little he was paid, the lecturer is the one who has the obligation to communicate his ideas. It there's any difference between what a lecturer meant and what the audience heard, it's the professional's fault. He was paid to communicate something, and he didn't do the job. The speaker's the one who decides what to say, and he's the only one who can fix it if that's not what he meant. It's just as unprofessional as blaming your audience for not liking your show. The captain of the ship does not blame the passengers when he hits an iceberg. I know the complaining parties, and they probably drove all day to make the lecture, too. And then drove back all night, in order to make it to work in the morning. Everybody's got lives. Everyone made sacrifices to be there. Only one guy got paid. If there was a miscommunication, the buck stops with him. What was said and what was meant are hardly as important as what was heard. This is honest feedback from people who went to the lecture with no particular axe to grind. To be fair to Eric, he has had nice things to say about Mr. Jay, and he has said them. Reread his posts. They have been civil, and anything but personal. His decision not to mention Mr. Jay's name reflects that. Okay, I'm done. Now I'm locking this thread. What do you mean I can't do that???
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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nostrings Loyal user Newport News, VA 293 Posts |
I agree with you Darwin 100% as far as a lecture no doubt being hard work, I got a chance to see you this weekend at metro-magic, you weren't exactly kicking back. My point there is that, he claimed he would stick around, but seemed less than ready to really do so, if he would have graciously said, that he couldn't stay then it would be a different story all together.I've been to lectures where that was the case the performer said he couldn't stay. My hope is that this was an isolated incedent, but it still does change the fact that in this case he was ready to go. I also wasn't asking for endless time, I was asking for nothing more than what he offered. Also the job I do is hard work but the other day I stayed an extra four hours for a customer, but if I couldn't have done that I would certainly not have claimed that I would. Also in Joshua's response he never specifically responded to the direct quotes ("I've been all over the world and seen some of the top names in coin magic and most of them just suck" and the others that have been posted)?
Adam Queen |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-12 19:16, Curtis Kam wrote: This whole thread was worth this one post! Curtis, you rock!!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Mike Melito Loyal user 263 Posts |
Newbie's post.
I would like to note that I have only been in the magic community for a short while but performed longer. I can say that all the lectures I've attended have portions if not a majority of "dealer demos". Great trick huh? - you can buy it from me for only $29.99 today. However, Joshua did something I hadn't seen anyone else do. At 2 points he made everyone stop and pull out some cards to practice a sleight, and then COINS to practice a vanish. Nobody else has done that, that I've seen. He also addressed this thread in his lecture and re-iterated what he posted above. I thought Joshua was nice and generous with his time, during and after the lecture. |
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Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
2 things:
1: Generally that is the only way lectures can make great money(by selling others effects)... Just check out henry evans lectures vs. others and watch the cash exchanging hands. 2: Many other lecturers actually also have you pull out stuff, lee always does and I've seen others that do as well... its a good change but many times I think things are slowed down by the slower members at lectures... |
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
Yes - Curtis is quite the comedian . . .
But that post was over a month ago - he's been even funnier since then. BTW - Brad Henderson and I kissed and made up over this weekend at the Mindvention in Las Vegas (I was having a lot of trouble configuring my patter for 3 Fly into "mentalism" - you know "Now, using "suggestion", I motivate the second coin to fly across"). So, anyway, back to Brad - I promised not to diss cold reading and he promised not to stomp me into a mixture of silver alloy and flesh on the pavement. Actually it was quite amiable. He's a good guy. I also met Joshua Jay there and talked him into settling this thing once and for all - a cage match of Indian Leg Wrestling - winner decides if coin magic sucks or not. The kid's a ringer - how would I have known - but he let me win a couple times just so I wouldn't feel bad. We called it a tie and later he did some really nice card magic so I wouldn't go into some kind of catatonic fit from my overexposure to boon writers and book tests . . . |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Doug, magic knows no time!
The original poster of this thread has gone slent, so the cage match must have settled all;-)
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Professor Piper Special user Somewhere, out there... 770 Posts |
Disclaimer: I have no personal knowledge of EITHER party in this thread.
All I DO know for sure is that Eric (Godhandz) DID clearly state in a pre-ambled paragraph that the following thread was his opinion Please see this from Webster's below for clarification of what an opinion is: Quote:
Main Entry: opin·ion Right, wrong, or otherwise...We are ALL entitled to our own opinions and deserve the respect of others when we express them... Although you may not agree, I can guarantee that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get 100% approval from ANY body of people...It simply can not happen. My only question, therefore, is this... What the h3ll is a JW Grip???? Prof. Piper :juggle: P.S...I'm a newbie to coin magic...Right now MY coin works sucks.
"Nemo has been found! He was on an Admiral's Platter at Red Lobster!"
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-14 18:06, Professor Piper wrote: Check out the DVD entitled Cultural XChange. |
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Professor Piper Special user Somewhere, out there... 770 Posts |
Quote:
Check out the DVD entitled Cultural XChange. Thanks Larry! Prof. Piper :juggle:
"Nemo has been found! He was on an Admiral's Platter at Red Lobster!"
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Eric Jones V.I.P. Director of Product Development 2101 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-14 17:35, MagicChris wrote: Gone silent? No, no, no..... I haven't been hanging around the Café as much because of a loss in the family. My father, who had been instrumental in the development of my magical career passed last week and I've been concentrating on him. There are several reasons why I haven't posted anything else on this thread. The main reason is that I refuse to say the same things over and over again. There simply isn't any reason for it. I have stated my opinions, Mr. Jay has stated his. Some Café members have understood and commented on my opinions, while others have sympathized with Mr. Jay to say that I have mistaken him. In either event, Curtis has pretty much said summed up everything in his last post, and there isn't much more that I can say. I have corresponded with Josh Jay though e-mail. I was considering posting the conversation, but decided against it. To sum the conversations up, he feels as if I misunderstood him, I feel as though he was in the wrong. We have decided to agree to disagree. I look forward to meeting up with him in Ohio next year at the a convention to discuss things face to face. In my initial post, I apologized in advance for creating a thread that may not have been productive. This couldn't be further from the truth. This has been an extremely productive thread. The arguement surrounding coin magic's future has been taken into consideration by several other Café members on other threads. We have Mr. Brad Henderson to thank for it. I, for one, am now slightly more versed in etiquette during a lecture. Comments made by guys like Curtis and Darwin Ortiz have made things crystal clear in my opinion. Lastly, I have to read and re-read Paul Chosse's comments. From now on, I'll always remember to take what I need, and leave the rest......
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR> <BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Eric I'm sorry to hear of your loss. I think I can speak fo all members here in saying May GOD bless you and your family during this difficult time.
GODspeed! Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Joshua Jay V.I.P. 196 Posts |
Wow. Eric, I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your father. I lost my father this summer and not a minute goes by that I don't think of him. Best to you in this difficult period. Oh, and for the record, Dad loved coin tricks.
Josh |
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Eric Jones V.I.P. Director of Product Development 2101 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-15 01:20, Joshua Jay wrote:
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR> <BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com |
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doktokaro New user 57 Posts |
This is, hands down, one of the best, most mature threads on the Café.
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