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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
I may have walked out as well. I've never heard anyone say anything remotely like that.
Then again, let's understand that we are hearing but one side of the story and, even if Godhandz heard 'Coin magic sucks', that doesn't necessarily mean that is what the lecturer said. How far is the work sucks from rocks? Even if he did say that, did he mean in tongue in cheek. Personally I thin Godhandz probably got his intention right, but one should always leave that little doubt. Let's suppose that he said what Godhandz heard and meant what Godhandz understood him to mean. In that case I would have evaluated whether the lecturer had anything else that I could use. If not then I would have left. If he had something else that I thought was commercial and I might be able to adapt is, then I would have stayed. No sense in shooting yourself in the foot to make a point. |
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Eric Jones V.I.P. Director of Product Development 2101 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-11 01:03, Paul Chosse wrote: I can sincerely say that I did gain one thing from watching this guy work. I was reminded to humble myself. I recently read a newsletter sent out by Denny Haney that I try to keep in hindsight with everything I study in magic: A Word from Denny... "Some personal thoughts... The great Paul Rosini, one of the most successful magicians of our time once stated that he has learned more about performing magic by reading the life stories of other conjurers than he ever did from books and magazines explaining how to do tricks. Think about the above statement. Doesn't it make sense?? How can one possibly learn to be great if he knows nothing about those who were great before him?? My thirty year career as a performer was based primarily on the study of magicians from the past. In general, the younger magician of today have approached magic in a different way. I have seen a great display of skill by young magicians. They have learned their sleights, moves, and effects very quickly from teaching videos and television. As skillful as they are, there is a lack of "foundation." Most are unaware of how to use their skill, present themselves as performers, or how to put together an act or show that will be commercially successful and pleasing to a lay audience...." I, unfortunately, fall into this catorgory at times. The lecturer, isn't too far from it himself. However, I am lucky enough to understand that I need this "foundation", and actively seek it out before making comments I'm not experienced enough to have an answer for.
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR> <BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com |
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Chris "linkster" Watson Special user England 564 Posts |
Hmmm let me think....some of the most respected magicians through out the ages. I can think of Ramsay, Vernon, Kaps, Slydini, Goshman, Malini, Downs, Victor, Marlo and they all shunned coins for being bad magic! Oh...no...wait a minute, haven't they all published something on coins too? WHAT and they performed with them as well? **!!!***
I think my question to this particular magician would be what does he know that the previously mentioned "Greats" of the art missed? I'd then probably take the money I'd paid for his lecture and vanish it from under his nose...and see if that had an emotional "HOOK" for him Actually I would probably just smile and think what he's missing out on, both from the magic and from chatting to you rabble here at the coin section of the Café every week |
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Rob Elliott Elite user Reston VA 487 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-11 13:01, rikbrooks wrote: Although I was unable to attend the lecture myself, I think it's safe to say that this wasn't some off-the-cuff remark that was open to interpretation. I was told by another coin worker who was also there, that the lecturer belabored the point, and there was even a post-lecture conversation in which he reiterated his feelings. Personally, I just feel sorry for the guy. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Hey folks, I just see it as one less person making a mess of some routines I like.
What do I need to do to convice people that Ramsay's stuff sucks rocks and it's just a waste of time? And instead folks who want to be cool should work on sit down material like Slydini's and his clever student David Roth's formal works.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pachin Regular user 153 Posts |
Eric I think the guy was trying to justify the reason why he was not good with coins. If he did not like working with coins or the effects then he should not even bring the subject up.
I wonder if afterwards he said: "But here let me show you instead a cool effect with cards" . Pick a Card, let me shufftle the deck and I will find your card. |
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mystre71 Inner circle martinsburg west virginia 1693 Posts |
RE:Then again, let's understand that we are hearing but one side of the story and, even if Godhandz heard 'Coin magic sucks', that doesn't necessarily mean that is what the lecturer said. How far is the work sucks from rocks? Even if he did say that, did he mean in tongue in cheek.
I was also at this lecture, Eric heard him just fine. Good thing for me that I didn't just drive 3 hours to see this guy, I was also there to hang out with Eric. Eric left out the part where twice the lecturer said "Coin magicians missed the boat" he also made the comment that "I've been all over the world and seen some of the top names in coin magic and most of them just suck". He reasoning behind that statement was "The reason I know this, is because, my girlfriend watches coin magic and isn't fooled by it at all. She said they are just hiding the coins in their hands or just sliding them across the table." As well as "Coin magic is just vanishes and productions, with no presentations", Now this part would have been fine by me had he, had any kind of a presentation with his own routines, out of everything he did, only two routines had some what of a presentation. He performed two coin routines. One pretty much has built in presentation,but not for this guy (his presentation was look what I can do with these three coins), the other was a three coin vanish, in which he pulled three coins out and for no apparent reason just vanished them, with the line, that's what real magic should look like. Never mind the fact that he never really introduces the coins,you barely got to see them, then they were gone. He is entitled to his own opinion, and had he said I don't like or hate coin magic,that would have been fine, but to say coin magicians missed the boat, through out his lecture, and to try and use that to make his magic seem that much better was ridiculous esp. when he had no presentation at all. What he did have was some skill and a few clever ideas, but mostly it was old plots with kicker ending that made no sense to the effect itself. and yes HIS coin magic sucked. Joe
Walk around coin box work check it out here https://www.magicalmystries.com/products
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KirkG Inner circle 1391 Posts |
So what was his name so I don't schedule him for our group. You can PM me on this.
Kirk |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Sounds like a lot of time was spent on a lecture topic he did not like himself.
This seems strange and a waste of everyone's money. I don't like stage illusions. I certainly won't be lecturing about how much I don't like them. I wonder if he rehearsed that part of his lecture? "Purse and Glass" and "Cylinder and Coins" are two of my favorite close-up effects. "Chink-a-Chink" is one of the most visually magical effects there is. I don't like all coin magic but boy.... that's quite a statement.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Steve Oxford Regular user Churchville,MD. 155 Posts |
I'm a little befuddled here, people actually paid this guy to lecture with comments like that? Granted, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when you are a professional performer, doing a lecture, the last thing you should ever do, is p*** off the attendees.
I have seen many lectures in the past 8 years, some were great, some were fair, and there were even a couple that were downright bad, but....with each I walked away with something of value. If nothing else, I learned how not to do things. I am assuming that this lecturer had products to sell afterwards...I would be curious as to how well he did following the lecture. I saw Bob Fitch do a workshop on the topit a while back. Now the topit did not interest me at all, but Bob did such a great job explaining in minute detail all the little things that make performing with the topit so great. You could not help but like Bob, even I bought just about everything he was selling afterwards. Bob Fitch truely entertains, and you can see his real desire to teach when he lectures, and that is the key to a good lecture. just my 2 cents S. |
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Eric Jones V.I.P. Director of Product Development 2101 Posts |
Well Steve that's the differenct between an entertaining lecture geared toward magicians and a dealer demo disguised as a lecture.......lol j/k
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR> <BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Any chance I could sell special edition notes with watercolored illustrations if I lectured?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
I was just trying to be fair in my last post and give the guy the benefit of the doubt. It seems that I gave him too much credit.
There's the rub. I know that there are idiots everywhere and in all fields. I just hate to see such blatant stupidity. On the plus side, I bet he doesn't make a really good living with such lunacy. |
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Rob Elliott Elite user Reston VA 487 Posts |
And you are absolutely right in doing so, Tex. As you said, there ARE two sides to every story and it is a rare and valuable quality to be able to take what you hear with a grain of salt until you've heard both sides.
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smitty Veteran user Picton, Ontario 358 Posts |
Hmmm, a 'professional' lecturer who says to a room full of magicians that 'coin magic sucks'. WOW, ballsy. I have to honestly think that perhaps this chap TRIED coin magic, but SUCKED at it (or at least his girlfriend thought he did, and of course she was probably right), so switched to whatever he is doing now. And, because 'he' sucked, and just couldn't cut it, in his mind 'everyone' now sucks. I've met a few people like that in my 30 years of playing with magic.
I don't personally like big stage illusions, mainly because they don't do anything for me; I could never afford to build them and use them; and more importantly, they DO NOT fit my personality at ALL. I had a Sub Trunk built years back, and tried to work on it, but I was too big and too slow, so turned it into a Toy Box for our kids. Anyway, my point is I guess, I love ALL forms of magic/entertainment, but will never try them all. Coins and cards have always been my favorite, since they are easy to carry on your person. Mind you, Balloon Twisting is really my SPECIALTY. But today, my main focus is Mentalism, with a little coin and card work for fun. smitty |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Amazing, David Roth finally tells it like he sees it, and offers his professional Svengali Deck work and all you guys moan about is his joking dislike of some coin grips. Get a grip... Edge, JW or otherwise.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: Anything wrong with an oldfashioned classicpalm?On 2005-10-12 13:24, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
I think I know which lecturer you're talking about (I have friends who attended) and you couldn't be more wrong. What he was saying was a little more complex than the way you've interpreted it. As usual, a bunch of guys here have lit the torches and are ready to burn the monster at the stake, based on your spin.
So it goes.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Andrew, interesting. What specifically do you believe he said?
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Randy Loyal user Rochester, NY 261 Posts |
I wasn't at the lecture and don't know who you are talking about but judging from the original post it sounds like he may have been saying that the latest trend in coin magic (what I and others call Coin-Fu) sucks. If that is what he was saying, I tend to agree. I prefer a style of coin magic that appears more natural and less stylized. For example the coin magic of Mike Gallo, Paul Gertner or John Carney.
The Buffalo Get-Together - A Close-Up Magic Convention
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