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TheAmbitiousCard
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I bought the Al Goshman video and was watching his coin mechanics.
The mid-air coin pass is awfuly good. I was seeing a coin go from hand to hand
and had to rewind it and watch it again.

great stuff. if you don't have that video and have never seen Mr. G do his
act, it's great.
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Werner G. Seitz
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Isn't that what I have mentioned for years? Smile

Se his act and think about, *why* he was such a huge success, why he didn't bore his onlookers...

Get the DVD from:

International Magic

watch it and think about it.

One of the reasons he was so successfull was, that ppl could 'understand' what he did!

There where no complicated effects, everything was straight ahead..
Sure, he did move stuff and props around all the time, but you never where in doubt what was happening, everything was straight forward..

The effects where easy to understand and..there was happening something all the time keeping your interest

No long drawn out stories, no long drawn out patterlines, he simply presented MAGIC
He 'touched' ppl, they where seduced and didn't care at all to follow any secret actions, they just leaned back, watched what he did and enjoyed..
That's the true art of magic! Smile, to get ppl to that state..
Fred Kaps had similar when f.ex.doing the *Homing Card* (just to name a single one of his effects that illustrates the point)..one didn't care to look for any secret action, one just enjoyed the performance..

What a performer...
Anybody interested in close-up magic (not soley coin-magic) should se Albert perform, if one hasn't, one has missed some of the pleasures of being into -and loving- magic!!


On a personal note:
One of the true pleasures of my magical life has been to se Albert performing life many times, even getting some tips in person re his Toss vanish, having seen Slydini at a private party performing most -almost all- of his close up routines and having seen Fred Kaps performing life, both close-up and on stage..
Outstanding performers one will never forget..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Curtis Kam
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Mega Dittos, Frank. He even gets a burn during the explanations, when his hands are empty.

I know of three pros who decided to get into close up when they saw Goshman's act. One of them described the act as a "religous" experience. Smile

Are you talking about the tape he shot himself, or the International magic one?
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
Werner G. Seitz
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OK guys,
I suppose, nobody can get the same burn as AG did, nobody ever so far came close to what AG did re his toss-vanish and this includes most certainly me too!

However, to se how it can look when done by somebody else, not that experienced, have a look at:

http://www.youtube.com/?v=I22HS3nrWcI

Captured some time back, when getting a new WebCam, and it was the very first capture made, using that WebCam, after adjusting the sharpness/distance aso., I just jumped right into it.

I just did what came to mind, this isn't a show/set, whatever, there is no patter that makes sense, I just babbled to myself and captured what I did.

I let you all se this capture for one single reason..it shows how AGs toss vanish looks when done by somebody else.

IF you think it is deceptive, imagine how deceptive it is, when done by a MASTER, by AG himself !
Get both of his DVDs, the one from International Magic, and the one Albert did himself..
Also pls. note, each time that sleight is used on that capture, it is done differently then AG mostly did it.

Normally AG did solely use the TP, he solely did use the CP when he showed the coin ON his hand and therefrom did the toss.

In case of that capture the coin is take directly into the CP, a thing, AFAIK, AG never did, so actually this *might* be bad, but I always do it that way..

I also use the TP, but VERY, very seldom..

Se for yourself..still remember, this was done out of the top of the head, without any rehearsal, just to se how stuff like this looked when captured by a cheap WebCam..

Even when making all these reservations, I also think it looks acceptable, not as a *show*, but as a display re that sleight..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
vinsmagic
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sleeping with the fishes...
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Werner in your hands and I say this you are a master of the toss pass because you can palm the coin effortlessly and in your hands is very natural.. However there's NO BURN of the coin ..... One thinks he sees the coin travel but there is no BURN...
Before any one jumps on me Werners timing was excellent and this is not easy to do,as was Goshmans/// Ths is what makes it a great looking effect..
Only the godfathers toss is there a Coin Burn and I will put a Putfile up for any one to see .
vinny
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
Bill Wells
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Could you guys and Al Schneider (in the Schneider Coins Across thread) be talking about the same thing but using different words?
Jonathan Townsend
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Bill, Al is using a different language to describe how one communicates intention, though the end result is evident without explanation, you feel as if you saw the coin go from hand to hand. Using a different language to express the idea;

If you can offer a congruent communication that includes everything but a detail or two, it is likely that the audience will fill in that detail in their mental model. In this case a sort of visual transderivational search can fill in a small patch of missing visual data, in the same way as the reader will fill in this expression "The Cat in *** Hat" to all by actually see the letters "the" in place of the asterisks.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Malcolm Kavalsky
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Werner,

I really enjoyed seeing that coin jump across. I have watched the video at least 10 times, and even without burn it is totally convincing! (and I thought only ROVs where worth spending time on)

I wonder how it compares to Al Schneiders ...
Checkout the Bobo Project at:
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Clip index at:
http://planet.nana.co.il/openbobo/
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2005-10-14 09:54, Malcolm Kavalsky wrote:
... I wonder how it compares to Al Schneiders


How would you suggest one compare the two?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jaz
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Years ago, at a lecture, George Shindler did this toss, each time moving his hands further apart. Fooled me.
Malcolm Kavalsky
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On Rubinsteins encyclopedia, he describes Al Schneider's classic vanish, and uses it quite a lot throughout the dvds. This also uses a classic palm false transfer, but doesn't so much toss the coin as place it in the other hand.

However, I get the feeling from previous posts from Al, that his vanish has changed ?

Is this the one he is talking about in his posts ? Eould be nice to see a clip of him doing it.
Checkout the Bobo Project at:
http://kavalsky.net:3834/OpenBobo/
Clip index at:
http://planet.nana.co.il/openbobo/
Werner G. Seitz
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I have to mention, I very much admire the work of Al Schneider, and this goes for his coin-pass too..
Thing is, Al Schneiders work is that of a magician that thinks a lot about each single move.

The diff. between Al Schneiders and Al Goshmans move is, that Al Schneider doesn't use a *toss* but a *placement* and it is very, very good.

Unfortunately however, I work much faster then Al Schneider, and so the toss does fits me better.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Pete Biro
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I love the Goshman pass and have used it for years after Albert showed me how... it is the fact that you BELIEVE yourself that the coin was tossed to the other hand. Your entire body and expressions are key to making it work.

He taught me his sponge ball routine, but sadly, I didn't keep up with it and have lost "the touches." He told me once, "What fools the magicians is the fact that in the middle of the routine I do it LEFT HANDED."

SURE DO MISS THAT MAN Smile
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2005-10-14 12:21, Pete Biro wrote:
.... "What fools the magicians is the fact that in the middle of the routine I do it LEFT HANDED."

SURE DO MISS THAT MAN Smile

You bet Pete, what he did was pure poetry...
Somehow it reminded me of Chaplin, no kidding...the tragedy aso. you know what I mean..
Honestly however, I never saw AG do any fake-pass from from left to right.

Re his spongeball-vanish, I think this might be confused with that he -and this is one of the more clever things- after the fake-pass from right to left and after 'unloading' his hand via loading the 'extra' into the specs hand, did a fake-pass from left to right with the non-existing spongeball, vanishing it from the right hand, showing both hands empty simultaniously..
I'm sure this is what you ment, right? Smile

That strategy BTW, is outstanding and it is -as you mentioned- what throws ppl completely off guard, they can't trace back, the ball simply is gone.

Of course I've stolen that move from AG way back in the late 1970s, early 1980 and used it ever since..

Most likely you too know the way Juan Tamariz does start up the spongeball-routine,
combine this with that AG strategy and one has a h*ll of a deceptive sequense of moves, this is even more deceptive then AGs original start-up and that mean a lot....
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
TheAmbitiousCard
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I got the video becuase of Werner, but my post was instigated by the Al Schneider thing as much as it was about sharing that I liked the video.

Mr. Wells, I wondering the same thing when I first saw that retention.

Especially if there is no object to actaully get retented (sic) ...
is that "Intention"?

Anyway, thanks for pointing me to the video, Werner.


Let the games begin...
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Werner G. Seitz
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Frank, I think it has been mentioned before, that in case of AG's toss vanish, it is ppls expectation -in their mind- that fills in the 'blanks'.

They know that when a such throwing motion is made, the coin will fly into the other hand, they expect it and their mind *sees* it..

Michael Ammar once made a remark re ppls expectations.

It was alongst the line that one is used to look at ones wristwatch with intervalls regularily, even when one has looked at it, maybe a minute thereafter one is looking at it again, especially when ones mind is occupied with something and one probably has be sure to leave the house (f.ex.) at a certain time.

Now, when ones wristwatch is off for repair, it takes some time before one is realizing NOT to constantly check the time, meaning, one is -with intervalls- still looking at ones empty wrist..realizing the watch isn't there as it is off for repair, but still one is looking a couple of times at the empty wrist.
Takes a while NOT to!

Ammar did use that example in another context, re how misdirection works, but I think it also fits re that image ones mind is 'inserting' when they se a non-existing coin getting thrown from one hand to the other..

Malini, who did that ballvanish by throwing it upwards following it with his gaze/eyes, and in reality having it in CP, no doubt did deceive all onlookers..
Same thing almost, it's all in their mind..expectations...

Re Al Schneiders outstanding handling of his CP vanish, where he doesn't use a toss at all, but a 'put', I think a similar psychology is into play.
In this case, due to the handmovement, ppl ALSO expect the coin to be put into the other hand.
IIRC does Al Schneider always have the coin on the palm up hand for a free display, before it logically (supposingly) SLOWLY falls (actually is DIRECTED) onto the fingertips, is held there very convincing,-all this done with a kind of rolling motion of the hand, a very natural one- and calmly therefrom is 'put' into the other hand.
Probably Al Schneider will give us his thoughts behind this, IIRC, it is explained on one of his DVDs, I haven't backchecketre this yet.

Thomas Krantz, one of DKs outstanding coinworkers, the best there is, does use Al Schneiders vanish and does him justice to the extreme..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Bill Wells
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Jon and Frank -

Thanks for your responses to my thought that the two Als (Schneider and Goshman) were achieving the same result althought Goshman or his supporters may have never expressed it in the same terms as Al Schneider and his supporters. Neither Al could be said to waste many words in their performances, both could be said to be very confident and relaxed in their style...in short, I feel both styles induce a belief in their audiences although they exhibit two distinctly different personalities and performance types. Whatever is the reason, one can certainly say they think they see a coin going from the right to left hand with the Goshman pass and also with the Schneider coin passes. Kudos to both for having a special magic whatever one chooses to call it.

Bill

ps - Frank...please don't call me Mister...Bill is much better. Smile
Michael Rubinstein
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Malcolm, I have been told that Al takes issue with the way I "put" the coin into my other hand when I teach the move as his. It is his move, and he certainly should teach it the way he intended it. I, however, feel very comfortable in doing it the way I do, and don't feel it is different enough to call it anything other than Al's move. Al feels differently, and I'm told he has stated such in his book (which I highly recommend). Just a friendly difference of opinion.
AT LAST - a NEW fun coins across!! MIGRATE is filled with laughs, magic, cool moves, lasts over 3 minutes, uses props, comes in a Poker Chip version or special Deluxe version with coins, and is about...BEARS!
https://youtu.be/gGjMtW1DLjA

Send inquiries to rubinsteindvm@aol.com

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And if anyone (USA ONLY) needs some of the coin stuff used in the book, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com as I have some limited supplies of coins and props used in the book.
Al Schneider
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Boy guys, you make me feel great.
It is a good thing I started stopping by.
Curiously, I have spent some time talking to Al Goshman about the vanish.
The result of the conversation is that we are doing the same thing.
The conversation took place before I formulated the explanation of Intention of Reality so I don't know how Mr. Goshman would respond to it. The Intention of Reality was formulated to communicate the principles to my students in a weekly class I ran in the 70's. Frank Tougas was one of my students. He has worked with intention for a long time. Perhaps even more than me. He is now a psycholigist and uses intention in his therapy sessions. He has told me some amazing things he does with kids, magic and intention.

I find some of your comments comparing AG's vanish and mine unusual. My vanish is actually not slow. At the moment of transfer the hands are moving quite fast. I mean really fast. The issue is that, (because of Intention of Reality?) the hands seem to be moving at a normal relaxed speed. (I think I might have an edge on AG here) Traditionally in the seminiars I offer teaching the Schneider Vanish, I am almost yelling at the students to move fast. I force them to do it tripple fast.

I have much to say about this so I apoligize if it seems incomplete. One thing I attempt to make perfectly clear to my students is that the goal in class is to master the basic concept. Then on their own, blend it in with what you do. The vanish is quite flexible. In fact I feel I never perform it the same way twice. Sometimes the hands are far apart, sometimes the hands are close. This is the thing with Intention of Reality. There are many ways for the real thing to happen. Intention of Reality allows you freedom to go with the flow and free wheel. After all, whatever you do is real. The move is not a place move contrary to popular opinion. The coin is displayed and slamed into the other hand. Again I repeat this not noticed for it appears real because of the Intention of Reality. During class I often do the AG thing and have a foot of empty space between my hands during the vanish. I am attempting to convince the students of the power of the vanish.

While talking to Goshman about this, he seemed to do it at that long distance for it gave him a chuckle that such a simple thing could look so good. There was no reason for him to go that far. I rarely go that far for I see no need to do so.

Getting back to an above point. (Sorry this is not well coordinated)The move is not a put. This has been a false interpretation of the move. It is intended to be a drop from one hand to the other. However, if the hand moves a bit further away and drops a little to the right, the move becomes a toss. It is difficult to explain the versility of the move. It can be done in what appears to be a slow drop (in this there is still a lot of speed at the right moment according to the dictations of Intention of Reality) It can be done very quickly. It can be done with a coin, a ball, a golf ball and even an egg. It can be done surrounded. It even looks better when someone is looking over your left shoulder.

Now to Mr. Rubinstein.
It is not a opinion. It is a matter of fact. I do not offer this with hostility. I offer it in friendship and I am sure you will agree with the following.

While Intention of Reality is a key factor in the vanish, there is one overriding point in the vanish that seems to have escaped you. Apparently it was not explained correctly in the book. I have given lectures on this subject in which the key point of the lecture was this fact. Here it is.

When normal people move a coin from one hand to the other, the fingers of the receiving hand close under the dropping hand.

There is a great deal of theory here. It has to do with the way our body works. I have several body experiments to convince my students of this. The issue is that when most magicians PUT a coin into the hand; the coin, even if it be an intended coin, is held at the finger tips of the dropping hand and the fingers move the coin to the palm of the receiving hand. In this process the fingers of the receiving hand close around the coin and the tips of the fingers of the dropping hand.

What is being called an opinion is a difference of the finger tips being inside a closed hand or outside the closed hand.

I would agree that it is an opinion about which one is better. But it is not an opinion that the fingers in one are inside the hand while in the other the fingers are outside the hand.

Please let me know if this clears up the issue.

Please realize that I am very strong about this for it is the entire basis of the move. To me to not inclue this action means that it is not my move.

I understand that you are intending the coin to fall from the CP to the figner tips as in the way I do it. I am putting together a collection of some moves and I have labeled this way of doing the move the Schneider-Rubinstein method. However, this action is very junior to the action of the receiving fingers closing under an open dropping hand.

Now I need to say a few words about closing the receiving hand under the dropping hand. When I teach new people this they have no trouble. Magicians tend not to get it. They feel the coin is exposed. They feel that when the space between the hands is empty, all will see there is not coin falling and scream, "Look Ma, the fool has no coin there." The issue is this. The dropping hand can be 3 inches above the receiving hand. (With AG this is a foot) The dropping hand can have the fingers straight and the hand can be flat. The fingers can be spread to the point where the coin can be seen between the fingers. (Schneider Vanish not Classic) Magicians are so afraid they will get caught that getting into the Intention of Reality thing is very difficult.

The Intention of Reality thing is free and open. It allows your personal expression of whatever you wish to do. It eliminates the need to worry that, "The audience will see right through it."

Well I've babbled a lot. I hope its OK.
If you think you got a lot from me, that's OK.
Actually I get more from you if you read all of this.
Al
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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Watching Mr. Goshman back in the 70's was one of my inspirations to feature coins as props. He also helped teach me that I was an important part(prop if you will) in my routine. The intro to his book contains as much magic as the "tricks".

I am glad that I did not "pass/over" his lecture when he came through K.C.

Be safe, well and creative in your coin magic.

Harris "Palms of Aluminum Foil" Deutsch
For a lighter touch in coin magic
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
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