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Sven Heubes New user Duesseldorf, Germany 59 Posts |
How do you feel about using stooges...?
As I noticed, this theme mostly brings up heated discussions with a wide range of different opinions and views. When I talk about stooges, I mean any kind of secret helpers in a show, that can make impossible effects work or ensure the performer that a free chosen volunteer from the audience won’t kill your show by any misbehaviour (like DC uses them in his TV-Shows for example). I’m talking of stooges used for cool gags, prearranged behaviour, speech- and bodycodes etc. My personal way is not to use stooges (mostly) but I did. And I don’t condemn anyone going this way. After using a stooge in my show I asked myself: Was the audience amazed? – Yes they were! Did they applaud during and at the end of my show? – Like hell!! Did I get paid? – Yes So I only can come up with the conclusion: Whatever it is that amazes your audience and let them freak out, DO THAT S**T!!!! Now, I’m looking for your thoughts on that... Magic greetz,
If you were half as good as you think you are, you would be double as good as you think you are...
Dai Vernon |
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Thomas Rudolfo Special user Vienna, Austria, EU 640 Posts |
Hi Sven,
Generally I agree with you. I also used stooges in the past, rarely but I did. Most often for coding (like Cezanne Code) to achieve impossible effects. I don't use stooges at the moment because for my new program which I presented successfulyl recently at a theatre in Vienna I don't need any. But as you mentioned I don't condemn any who wants to use. Because the performer and stooge need to practice, invest time to rehearse. But again I for myself don't feel necessary anymore using stooges since I realised that my program without stooges also gets huge reactions. What did you use stooges for? Greetings Thomas |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
I have nothing against others using stooges, but I rarely if ever used them. The few times I have used them is when I am able to use a fellow performer as a stooge.
My own opinion is that I don't want anyone in the audience thinking, "Oh, so everything's a trick" and that's what the stooge will think and know if he is in on it and, most likely, he will also tell others. I treat my mentalism like a crime scene: no clues, no witnesses. That's just my choice. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Thomas Rudolfo Special user Vienna, Austria, EU 640 Posts |
Quote:
I treat my mentalism like a crime scene: no clues, no witnesses. Good post Greg. I'm with you about the correct selection of the person beeing the stooge. Whenever I used stooges in the past then once it was a very close friend but at the other times it was my wife. But IMO there's a lot of stuff and techniques out there so we aren't in need of stooges. But as Sven mentioned. If a performer feels that a stooge can enhance the impact and thus decides to use stooges than so he may. Thomas |
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Sven Heubes New user Duesseldorf, Germany 59 Posts |
Hi Rudolfo,
I used 1 or 2 stooges in my mental show (which is close to be performed again), which doesn't mean that all effects in the show are achieved using stooges. One was involved in my version of Dunninger-Annemans "answering written questions"-part using the one-ahead-technique. Some few times (only in special performances) I use a stooge acting as one volunteer out of six, who'll remain the only one on stage by chance and is having a breakdown and "dying" at the end of the show (close to the effect "alea iacta est" by Florian Severin, written in his beautiful book "Thirteen steps to Vandalism" - look out for it!!!). Sure, the audience will guess at the end , that this guy must belong to the show, but the very first moment they really freak out... OK, I just think I'm crazy enough to perform such thing... Greetings from Düsseldorf, Sven Posted: Oct 14, 2005 3:48pm -------------------------------------------- Yes Greg, your's is another interesting point of view, I really appreciate!
If you were half as good as you think you are, you would be double as good as you think you are...
Dai Vernon |
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Thomas Rudolfo Special user Vienna, Austria, EU 640 Posts |
Sven, sounds great. According to your Avatar (which I really like) I can imagine that it perfectly fits into your act. So IMO that's a good example how stooges can put some drama and impact in a show like DC did many times.
That must be a great and very dramatic finale of your show. WOuld like to see the faces of the audience ;-)) Greetings Thomas |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
The only problem I have with stooges is sometimes they want to get paid
No seriously- the only problem I have is the consistency of a particular effect. I prefer to have a show that needs no special people Similar to a Bill to impossible location with a torn corner switch- You have to ask the question- Does anyone have a $50 note- aaah no it has to be a 50. I prrefer to have an act that I don't have to pre arrange anything with anyone before hand Maby for a special show or if you wen t on TV but for corporate events- No I don't use them. |
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Sven Heubes New user Duesseldorf, Germany 59 Posts |
Thanx for the compliment Thomas!
Are You still playing in Vienna? Might be, that I'll have a short performance there in January 2006. From the end of November I will be playing in Erfurt (DASDIE BRETTL - Varieté)my version of PSYCHO (Severin)plus a small piece of mental and the new version of my "spirit-cabinet-act"... Icentertainment, don't you get paid as well when you perform? I think the question of payment is just up to the effect you can achieve.. regarding the impact on the audience. I perform the freaky stuff (dead volunteer) very rarely, and the reason that some friends (who mostly are comics or actors) will help me out with this one just for the fun of it. Preshowwork in the meaning of finding the right person during the event you'll work later, in fact is a very sensitive matter. But if you manage to do it right (Greg), nobody will ever notice that you were helped in any case. But this is only my opinion and I can only share my own experiences on this thread... By the way, I really find this thread getting more and more interesting!!! Keep it flowing... Greetz
If you were half as good as you think you are, you would be double as good as you think you are...
Dai Vernon |
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Thomas Rudolfo Special user Vienna, Austria, EU 640 Posts |
Yes Sven. Espacially in January and February 2006 I'll play my show in the same theatre I already did in June and now in September. SO just give me a short note when you come to Vienna and you are invited to my show. Would be nice to meet you.
Hope I also can visit your show soon since it sounds interesting. My wife and I plan to spend some days to visit Dresden maybe February or so. SO maybe we then can visit Erfurt if you are around there at that time. Will give you message. Thomas |
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Sven Heubes New user Duesseldorf, Germany 59 Posts |
Thanx again Thomas!
Your invitation is highly appreciated (could be fun, he?) Unfortunately I'll play Erfurt only end of November, December and the January-Weekends. But I'm trying to get the new shows out on the road and into other theatres. I'll try to keep you informed about further theatre-bookings.. Sven
If you were half as good as you think you are, you would be double as good as you think you are...
Dai Vernon |
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Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
Stooges rule...but how to keep them quiet afterwards?? even money wont keep their mouth shut all the time...
...a bizarrist like myself might get rid of them by...ah, nevermind... what about Derren Brown and his clip of converting the athiests? are they ALL stooges? actually, all he would need is one or two...the rest would fall in line I think... |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
I'm against using stooges. Why? Richard Osterlind makes a good point. It brings your act down, because the next day people talk, and they find out. If they find out a stooge was used, then the effects you "REALLY DO" that doesn't require stooges, they'll chalk it up to it being all a "Set-Up". The show's value really drops. It's not worth it for that 2 minutes or whatever of applause, then only later to have people that talk.
I WON'T be a hypocrite though. I have used a stooge maybe 3 times but that was for my Under Water Handcuffed and chained ESCAPES, when my life was on the line. When I was like 15-17, I belonged to a Church Youth Group. We had Swim Nights at people's houses in the summer time. Anyway on a couple if occasions I went to him as I could trust Russ (that was his name) as he was a youth minister. I told him, "look I'll ask someone to examine my handcufs (Jump-Cuffs), and I want you to be like "Let me look those over and chech them out Ed", and I told him I'd give it to him, and he was to act like he was trying to really figure them out, and "try" pulling them open. That was because my LIFE was on the line. That's different I think than mentalism. I've done that escape too where the handcuffs were examined WITHOUT a stooge as I held them so it was a "Controlled Examination", and over in 5 seconds. Afterwords in my bag after all was said and done I had duplicate cuffs that peple could play with till there hearts content. There I don't see no harm in it, BUT it HAS TO BE someone you know and trust. My philosophy, in Mentalism, I don't want ANYONE to know how things are done. I like Greg's attitude. Leave no witnesses. Now as far as a Two Person Code show where the audience KNOWS the person is a part of the act (like a husband and wife team), I have no problems, because you're being upfront with the audience so to speak. THat's ONLY for a TWO PERSON act. To just have a random person before the show or the "Instant Stooge", I'm EXTREMRLY AGAINST. Thanks, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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Ken Dyne Inner circle UK 2268 Posts |
I have to agree with most points . I don't want anyone knowing how I do this stuff, since I play it all for real. I do not want anyone in on it. I don't tell anyone how I do my stuff, not my partner, my f riends , noone.
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/
BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn |
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Sven Heubes New user Duesseldorf, Germany 59 Posts |
Eddini, I see the point!
but when I used (instant-)stooges in the one-ahead-answering, they (the stooges) all were surprised at the end of the show and still couldn't figure out how the rest of the effect was achieved... I just didn't tell them everything and made them feel very comfortable beeing a part of the show... and if he/she would tell her friend next day about the involvement, nobody of the 399 other spectators was aware of the fact and I had their minds blown out... Keep on discussing!!!!!!!!!!!
If you were half as good as you think you are, you would be double as good as you think you are...
Dai Vernon |
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Jay Elf Elite user 466 Posts |
Hello,
Before using stooges, think about these: 1) You are thinking an effect which uses a stooge. Is, however, that effect really impossible to perform without a stooge? 2) Building a reputation is a long way, but losing a reputation only needs one moment; in this case, just one word "Stooge". There are an instant stooge and a duel reality craze recently. I have been careful to the craze. Before using a stooge, take the above points into serious consideration. If you STILL want to use a stooge after consideration, don't hesitate, use it!!! |
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Ken Dyne Inner circle UK 2268 Posts |
I think it is important that we do not confuse one method with another. dual reality is not stooging. A stooge is someone who is in on it a nd thus knowingly assists the performer to acheive the result. Dual reality is where multiple perspectives of the same effect are created and everyone is fooled.
Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/
BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-15 04:31, Eddini_81976 wrote: Actually, they don't talk about it the next day. Unless you've chosen incredibly poorly. It totally depends on the stooge you use. Remember it's 'your' fault if the stooge talks, not the stooge. You're the performer. You're the pro. And I'm not sure if Osterlind has ever actually said that 'it brings your act down'. If he did, then I would disagree. Quote:
My philosophy, in Mentalism, I don't want ANYONE to know how things are done. In all fairness I'm not going to insult your intelligence hear as I'm sure you don't really mean this. For example If you're gonna' use a stooge then 'get a fellow magician'. As you will have gathered I have no problems with stooges and would happily use one in a big occassion in order to make the presentation seem greater than it was and to make me seem better than I am. Having said that, I'm a mentalist, not an actor. And the problem with stooges is that they take away (for me) any necessary skills (or at least most of them) required to deliver the end result. I end up almost solely becoming an actor. An actor picking up a fee for acting. But I don't simply do the gig for the fee, I actually wanna' present myself.... for ME. As a 'mentalist'. All my own work. Therefore I myself actually don't use them. But I'll probably change as the wind blows. Bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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felix501 Regular user Lewes, England 134 Posts |
One problem is that if too many mentalists used stooges and this became widely known, mentalism would be, if not dead, seriously harmed
felix |
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Ken Dyne Inner circle UK 2268 Posts |
Felix501, with all respect in the world, if any magician's principle becomes widely exposed then it would leave that area dead in the water, or would it? Some lay people know about double lifts, the one ahead principle etc these are similarly magician's and mentalist's techniques yet there are still an abundance of successful mentalists and magicians.
Just some food for thought. Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/
BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn |
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Magical Lady Loyal user 275 Posts |
Personally, I would agree with several of the posts here.
I would be concerned that someone in the audience KNEW there was a 'stooge' and could therefore tell others? Also, that if they KNOW one trick is helped by a stooge, they may suspect other tricks are so assisted when they aren't? And though I know its a ridiculous thing to say in some ways - it still feels like cheating! (I know I know...some will have a go at me for saying that...but I cant help it - it does!) (I have to also accept however that the effects that use a stooge successfully usually have just the most AMAZING effect on audiences!) What a tangled web we weave, those of us who seek to decieve! Best ML x |
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