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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Is this the right thing to do? Is it Ethical? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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JackScratch
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Tom, my understanding of the fair use act is that once you buy something, you have a right to ownership and use of it and the information on it. Among fair uses would be changeing from VHS to DVD, or even backups. I should mention I actualy looked up the fair use act, and it seems I was wrong about all that. Copyright laws are evil. Words can not express the absurd laws pertaining to copyrights and how they have been drasticly manipulated in the bast 25 years.
http://www.copyright.gov/

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:
1.the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2.the nature of the copyrighted work;
3.amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The distinction between “fair use” and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
Tom Cutts
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Jim,

So you are saying that sniffing glue is like a rock? It isn't ethical it isn't unethical, it just is. Perhaps ethicless.

By the way there is a HUGE difference between asking for clarification of a vague partial statement and being too lazy to reread topics to find the information refered to. Had you made your point clearly you might have an argument with the spoonfed deal. As it stands, not so much.

Jack,

Oh yes, Copyright reading makes for some great times. Smile Many people are misled by failing to read the meat of the law (the details) and still others are misled by accepting recollections and desires of others rather than facts. Thank you for illuminating the reality in your coming clean about the law.
jimtron
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Quote:
So you are saying that sniffing glue is like a rock? It isn't ethical it isn't unethical, it just is. Perhaps ethicless.
No, as I said twice before, in my opinion it is not unethical to sniff glue (although it's a dangerous and stupid thing to do).

Quote:
By the way there is a HUGE difference between asking for clarification of a vague partial statement and being too lazy to reread topics to find the information refered to. Had you made your point clearly you might have an argument with the spoonfed deal. As it stands, not so much.
I'm not "too lazy to reread topics to find the information referred to." I've often done that. I ask questions and request clarifications when I don't understand a post, or when I want to be sure I understand what the poster means. I don't expect people to repeat themselves so I can avoid doing work.

-Jim
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
I don't expect people to repeat themselves so I can avoid doing work.

Yet that is exactly what ends up happening. There is an example of it in this topic.

Meanwhile, you say that you do not want to encourage sniffing glue. Can I infer from this that you would not sniff glue? Perhaps such pointlessly dangerous things are against your nature... your ethic. Or are you saying that there really isn't anything to stop you from sniffing glue, no personal ethic, you just haven't done it, don't really forsee doing it, but it is not impossible that you might someday because there is no ethic in your personal make-up that tells you not to?

I guess we could cut to the chase and just ask, why wouldn't you sniff glue?
Jonathan Townsend
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Is it ethical here to discuss sniffing glue?

Is this a new effect?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Tom Cutts
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I'm using it as his provided example which might prove to be less entagled in the greying factors of magic examples.
jimtron
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Quote:
Meanwhile, you say that you do not want to encourage sniffing glue. Can I infer from this that you would not sniff glue?
Yes. I would not and have not.
Quote:
Or are you saying that there really isn't anything to stop you from sniffing glue, no personal ethic, you just haven't done it, don't really forsee doing it, but it is not impossible that you might someday because there is no ethic in your personal make-up that tells you not to?

I guess we could cut to the chase and just ask, why wouldn't you sniff glue?
I don't think sniffing glue is illegal (though I could be wrong), and I don't believe it to be unethical. The reason I don't sniff glue is because, as I said in previous posts, it's "stupid," "dangerous," and "extremely harmful." I have no interest in adhering my nostrils, getting a terrible headache, and inflicting brain damage upon myself.

I didn't intend to talk this much about glue sniffing; I only brought it up to give an example of how calling something "not unethical" does not mean I advocate it (as in, I don't find Justin's example in the original post to be unethical, yet I don't advocate it.)
Jonathan Townsend
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Geeze guys, you are barking up an empty tree.

To start, according the the latest news special it's called "huffing".

From there, look at modern business or legal practice. One is free to interpret the law to one's advantage and when challenged, to bring the matter before a judge. At least that's what we have.

As to actually huffing... well there are plenty of people doing it, so many that model glues had to be reformulated to contain noxious ingredients. As to the impertinant and impudent questioning about "would you..." I can only speak for myself and recall the dizzyness I felt painting some rooms one hot summer's day and wonder if those who do might enjoy being painters.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Tom Cutts
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Jim,

Would you say that you have an ethic which says you would not engage in "stupid," "dangerous," and "extremely harmful" things. Or is it just a coincidence?

Jonathan,

Does that huffing lead to puffing? Smile
jimtron
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Tom:

I guess it depends on how you define the term "ethic." I think of that word to have to do with morals and values. I don't refrain from glue consumption because I believe it to be morally wrong. I refrain because my intellect, tiny as it is, tells me that the consequences will be unpleasant, to say the least.

There are some things I refrain from doing because of pragmatic reasons. Other things I refrain from doing for ethical reasons.
Tom Cutts
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It does get tough to keep "ethic" and "ethical" clear as they both can mean different things. For instance: If you make a decision based on pragmatic ideas such as yours above, that can be referred to as an ethic. Quite simply a rule you choose to live by but not based on moral implictions.

In the opening post it is stated that a person has undertaken an action. It was also stated that if the person who took that action found out that "...if, by doing this, he is doing anything wrong either lawfully or morally..." he would correct the actions he has taken by destroying that which he has downloaded.

Quite literally this tells me that the guy doesn't know himself and therefore doesn't have an ethic which tells him if this is "right or wrong". In a strictly literal sense this action was taken without an ethic to govern it, and by definition is unethical in the literal sense, which is completely void of any moral implications.

If we step next to the moral use of "ethical" then it becomes more a matter of perspective. Quite simply does one feel it is morally right to ignore the literal copyright law in this case. I have no problem debating with someone who thinks it is right, has thought his position through, and is willing to admit he is saying it is "morally" right to break the law.
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