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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Is this the right thing to do? Is it Ethical? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Kozmo
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Here's my view....it's wrong that anyone makes available the ability to download a magic dvd that has been copyrighted...PERIOD! I produce magic dvd's and I spend a lot of money doing this is the hopes that I can turn a buck in the end while trying to produce something that's worth seeing....it's likely that if someone who legit purchased one of my products and it was flawed or just got worn out I would likely replace it just to keep that customer happy, and maybe he would buy something down the road...

Let me ask you something Steve, do you think it's right for someone to buy a dvd and copy it and then sell the original at a reduced rate?

koz
jimtron
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Quote:
On 2005-12-24 07:31, Tom Cutts wrote:
Spoon:
Quote:
On 2005-12-22 02:47, Tom Cutts wrote:
If we accept that things which we find to be not unethical are things which we find ethical (or is there some third classification between ethical and unethical)...


Is there a third classification? Not that I'm aware of. I do think there are shades of gray in ethical issues though.

Jonathan said:
Quote:
It seems interesting that in magic it is taken as ethical to copy the works of another, even without permission, and even to sell those works... yet supposedly unethical to copy the fixed expression of those works.


I disagree that the above is "taken as ethical." Who says it's OK to copy a magician's work without permission and sell it? I realize it happens, but I've never heard anyone defend it as being ethical.
Tom Cutts
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What do you mean by shades of gray?

Very Ethical.......Kind of Ethical......Kind of Unethical.....Flat Out Unethical
jimtron
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Quote:
On 2005-12-24 13:17, Tom Cutts wrote:
What do you mean by shades of gray?

Very Ethical.......Kind of Ethical......Kind of Unethical.....Flat Out Unethical


Yes, in my opinion some things are a little unethical; others more so.
Kozmo
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I beleive strongly that peopel whether they like a dvd or nbot buy and re-sell it only after they have made a copy which cuts the producer and the artist out of the money...thats intent, and likely is illegal...I"M SURE I could find a way to make it stick in a court of law....but its most certainly unethical

koz
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2005-12-24 12:23, jimtron wrote:...Who says it's OK to copy a magician's work without permission and sell it? I realize it happens, but I've never heard anyone defend it as being ethical.


Who? Everyone who buys from, sells to, publishes works of, accepts advertisements from, associates with or recomends a person who does such things. Let's include those who perform the works (from unauthorized sources) as well. If "the good" is defined as that which is rewarded (simple behaviorism here) ... it pretty much states the case for defining our ethos as not only accepting but rewarding such behavior.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Kozmo
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Agreed
Tom Cutts
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Yes, in my opinion some things are a little unethical; others more so.

OK, now somewhere on that scale the reading shifts from ethical to unethical. One point somewhere the line is crossed and you go from ethical to unethical, is that correct?
jimtron
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Yes, I believe that there is a line that can be crossed. Sometimes it's well delineated, sometimes fuzzy. And where it's drawn is subjective.
Steve Brooks
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tedb said; "Let me ask you something Steve, do you think it's right for someone to buy a dvd and copy it and then sell the original at a reduced rate?"

No, I do not think that is the right thing to do at all. If the original purchaser makes a back-up of a DVD that he/she purchased, that is fine. Everyone is entitled to a back-up copy. However, once the original disc has been sold, traded or given away, the back-up needs to be disposed of or destroyed.

Anyone buying a DVD, making a copy to keep for themselves and then selling the original is doing nothing short of stealing. Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
Kozmo
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Not to be offensive Steve ...but this is your Café and you started it and we are all grateful for it but if you feel this way then why are you allowing it to happen here?
koz
jimtron
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Tedb:

Selling used videos is allowed here, but I don't think Steve "allows" copying of them.
Kozmo
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Smile ...it's the same isn't it?...they copy them and Steve certainly knows that a high percentage of people here buy and sell these things here with that intention...the intention of getting something cheap, copying it and then selling it for the same price....we all know this is happening...and it's widespread.
For all those that don't use this practice we surely do appreciate it.
koz
Jonathan Townsend
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With all possible respect to those who are considering the matter...

How you can you know someone's intention?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
jimtron
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Quote:
On 2005-12-25 21:00, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
With all possible respect to those who are considering the matter...

How you can you know someone's intention?

Via paranormal powers? There are some folks here who claim to have remote viewing and other extra-sensory talents; perhaps they know the intentions of some Café members? Smile

But seriously, selling used magic DVDs is potentially more harmful to sales than downloading a title that you have purchased, in my opinion.

-Jim
Jonathan Townsend
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Jim, a magic DVD is property. When you buy it, you buy the right to resell it in our open market, even to give it to a muggle.

I understand your concern yet I don't know how to address it. What do you suggest?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
jimtron
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I understand that it's perfectly legal to resell magic DVDs, and I don't have any suggestions on how to stop it. As far as "muggles" go, if a magician puts his effects on the open market, why shouldn't anyone, even the merely curious, be allowed to purchase it?

In my opinion the best way to reduce exposure (which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing) is to refrain from publishing secrets (as books, effects, or videos).
Steve Brooks
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tedb said; "Not to be offensive Steve ...but this is your Café and you started it and we are all grateful for it but if you feel this way then why are you allowing it to happen here?"

Wow, that's a first; Someone accusing me of being too lenient...incredible.
I'm sorry, but that is just not the case. On the contrary, when members are caught dealing in the buying, selling or trading of illegal copies of anything (e.g, DVDs, lecture notes, etc) they are delt with accordingly. I do not hesitate to permanently ban bootlegger's and then report all their information to the proper authorities.

Further, your question implies that my staff and I are somehow PSYCHIC and capable of extraordinary mental processes that allow us to know WHO the dishonest people are as opposed to those that are honest. Give me a break.
The truth is that we greatly depend on our honest members who do not hesitate to make us aware of pirates. Thanks to the honest ones, we have rid the board of several dishonest people.

tedb said; "....we all know this is happening...and it's widespread"

So is murder, but that doesn't mean the authorities do not try and catch the folks engaging in that sort of activity. Geez...we do our very best to deal with thiefs here, but it is a never ending battle.

However, the topic is NOT about The Magic Café or its
policies
. We have been discussing eithics versus the law and how some people do not have a problem with breaking said law. Shall we continue?
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
Kozmo
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Look it, I started this thread just to see where people are at...i'm not mad at anyone but I will say this, I am of strong opinion that bootlegging and copying and selling here and on other sites is widespread....

I'm not saying steve that you should kill the thing, but I beleive that its worng and likely illegal....its certainly not in good faith what the people are doing on that page...
Tom Cutts
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Jim,

OK, there are shades of grey but into those shades there are grey ethical things and there are grey unethical things. Is there a line between those where one grey butts up against another?

What I'm getting at is this: everyone draws their "ethical line" in the sand; things on that side "is" and things on this side "ain't". Would that be an agreeable model if we take the "I don't know" or "haven't decided yet"s and remove them as incompletely thought through?

You make an interesting statement. Reselling of DVDs is more harmful, and would I be correct in assuming more unethical to you, than down loading a different version of something you have in your permanent library. It makes for an interesting model, but one not grounded in the reality of the market place or the reality of copyright law. But interesting just the same.

Are you telling me you have never, and will never, buy or sell any used magic media (books, tapes, DVDs, lecture notes, tricks) and that upon one's passing their media should be destroyed because it is used?

Tom
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