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2hot
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Sydney
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I have read most regularly in this forum posts that compare Sal Piacente with Darwin Ortiz. And I have to say that Sal Piacente is not even close to ortiz level. I was watching Sal's lecture notes, and the tricks he desribes are so appalling compared to Ortiz's. Also his pushthrough shuffle can be seen from Mars. Can anyone tell me where I can see Sal doing serious gambling routines with the sleights done properly. I don't know if he has the experience of Ortiz, but Sal's sleights need more practice. Can anyone comment on why people match Sal with Ortiz
Samuel
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Norway
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2hot: There is no doubt that Darwin is better at gambling demo's than Sal, but then again, Sal might be better at ordinary magic sleights. I can't speak towards the thing you write, but regarding my own discoveries, Darwin doesn't do a very good Elmsley or Jordan (just to mention two sleights).
Samuel

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allanmania
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I've seen Sal and his wise guy stuff. I liked his videos on 3 card monte and the 3 shell game. He is good with those but overall as a performer he isn't what I'd call a professional. Even his video on cards was like, "Ok, this trick requires the deck to be in this order. Let me show you how to put the cards you have at home like the ones I have in this video."

I like him though.
vinsmagic
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sleeping with the fishes...
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Sal Is a real world gambling technician and mentalist
Ortiz is a real world magician two different styles and they can not be compared to each other,,,,,
2HOT you never met Sal if you did you would never have made that statement
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iamslow
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Quote:
On 2005-10-22 18:29, 2hot wrote:
I have read most regularly in this forum posts that compare Sal Piacente with Darwin Ortiz. And I have to say that Sal Piacente is not even close to ortiz level. I was watching Sal's lecture notes, and the tricks he desribes are so appalling compared to Ortiz's. Also his pushthrough shuffle can be seen from Mars. Can anyone tell me where I can see Sal doing serious gambling routines with the sleights done properly. I don't know if he has the experience of Ortiz, but Sal's sleights need more practice. Can anyone comment on why people match Sal with Ortiz

I think when you say Sal is not in Ortiz level, you are talking about gambling routines and magic tricks and not the real stuff... As for experience, Sal probably has more experience in the field of Casino Consulting than Ortiz... Im not saying Darwin is no good, but when it comes to their field of work, I believe Sal is at a different level... remember, Sal actually works in a casino and Darwin doesn't... Ive seen Sal consult at a casino I used to work at here in Canada, and he did some pretty sweet stuff... Of course the stuff he did would put anyone that's not in the business to sleep, but it was the real stuff that pertains to actual casino game protection and not magic... But if you want a kick *** gambling routines, then I would go with Ortiz...
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Silly Walter the Polar Bear
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Quote:
On 2005-10-22 18:55, Samuel wrote:
2hot: Darwin doesn't do a very good Elmsley or Jordan (just to mention two sleights).


His elmsley and Jordan are far more deceptive than most I have seen. Also, I have seen some of Sal Pudendas clips and he is highly overrated. Word on the streets is that Ray Charles busted him on his push through shuffle.
iamslow
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Darwin does do a pinky count better than anyone I have ever seen, but I don't know if that counts... Word on the street is he taught Stevie Wonder how to do it too by explaining it through email...Smile
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
mook
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I can understand why people compare Sal and Darwin, considering that there are probably less than a dozen people around the world that do what they do: demonstrate to casinos the moves that cheaters use at the tables. They also both do magic, but like The Godfather said, they have two "different styles." Personally, I have seen both do casino lectures. Darwin puts me to sleep. I also have little respect for what he has to say, since, to my knowledge, he has no experience working in a casino, like Sal does. Also, I found his lecture so boring that I considered taping it for those nights that I have trouble sleeping. Sal, on the other hand, has tons of personality, along with incredible skills, and is one of the nicest people you will ever meet.

Concerning Sal's lecture notes, 2hot, I'm curious about what you mean by "the tricks he desribes are so appalling compared to Ortiz's." What do you mean by appalling? Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I wondered if you could clarify why you say that and what exactly you find appalling. Personally, I thought that the content of Sal Piacente's lecture notes reflected the tricks he performs for laymen and magicians alike, which have the best reactions from his audience. Since those DVDs came out, I've seen so many magicians performing them, especially the 4-5-6 packet trick.

I think people who are most critical often forget that magic is all about the audience. I've watched magicians with great skills and I've seen magicians with little technical skills. From those experiences, I can say that a magician with little technical skill and great presentation skills and personality, can please an audience as much as, if not more than, the most technically talents performer.
From Sal's live performances, I can honestly say that I think he has superb skills in a variety of sleight of hand maneuvers. I can't comment on Darwin because I haven't seen him entertain.
2hot
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Sydney
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If you havent seen ortiz's videos get them now. I find that Darwin is much more entertaining than Sal
vinsmagic
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2hot have you ever seen sal or ortiz in person ???????talked with them ??/

videos and dvds are not the same ,,,,,sorry. however you have your opinion
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tommy
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If one is not as good as either how does one know who is best? Not saying your not, I am just asking a question.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Tommy,

Who was a better NFL quarterback? Joe Montana or Don Majkowski? Both guys are worlds away from whatever football skills I had in High School.

But I can **** sure answer the question. Please don't be silly.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Mr.Tweed
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Quote:
On 2005-10-24 01:19, vinsmagic wrote:
2hot have you ever seen sal or ortiz in person ???????talked with them ??/

videos and dvds are not the same ,,,,,sorry. however you have your opinion



So you're saying that they aren't as they appear in the DVD's? Does this mean you think Sal comes across badly on DVD or Darwin? I don't follow you.
Too lazy to work, too nervous to steal.
Mr.Tweed
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Quote:
On 2005-10-22 23:56, iamslow wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-10-22 18:29, 2hot wrote:
I have read most regularly in this forum posts that compare Sal Piacente with Darwin Ortiz. And I have to say that Sal Piacente is not even close to ortiz level. I was watching Sal's lecture notes, and the tricks he desribes are so appalling compared to Ortiz's. Also his pushthrough shuffle can be seen from Mars. Can anyone tell me where I can see Sal doing serious gambling routines with the sleights done properly. I don't know if he has the experience of Ortiz, but Sal's sleights need more practice. Can anyone comment on why people match Sal with Ortiz

I think when you say Sal is not in Ortiz level, you are talking about gambling routines and magic tricks and not the real stuff... As for experience, Sal probably has more experience in the field of Casino Consulting than Ortiz... Im not saying Darwin is no good, but when it comes to their field of work, I believe Sal is at a different level... remember, Sal actually works in a casino and Darwin doesn't... Ive seen Sal consult at a casino I used to work at here in Canada, and he did some pretty sweet stuff... Of course the stuff he did would put anyone that's not in the business to sleep, but it was the real stuff that pertains to actual casino game protection and not magic... But if you want a kick *** gambling routines, then I would go with Ortiz...


Ortiz has been doing professional consulting for casinos and law enforcement since the mid to late 70's. I remember reading about all this in a Bob Elliott interview in MUM or one of those magazines in the 80's, and in Genii around the same time.

Sal Placente came on the scene in the late 90's, early 2000's, after his monte booklet came out. Before that, he was a doorman in New York City, as he mentions in the very same book. He also mentions in the book that he got fired for tossing monte on one of the residents of the exclusive apartment he worked in, which isn't exactly the greatest idea. He might have been a bit new to hustling - or just plain greedy. But you don't **** where you eat, as they say.

All the best in magic

John Corey
Too lazy to work, too nervous to steal.
mook
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John, you would actually be wrong about Sal coming on the scene in the late 90's. At least as far as the casino consulting. He turned 21 (in the 80's)while working in an A.C. casino & shortly after, began contracting w/different casino consulting cos. to do lectures. & while I don't knock Darwin (I don't know him), I have seen his casino lecture, which I found quite boring. Darwin's mngr did a good job getting him gigs, but Sal's many clients (worldwide) are from referrals. Sal moved back to NY (when he worked as a doorman), but still did consulting. So to set the record straight- Sal is not new to the scene. From what I hear, a Casino manager walked out of Darwin's seminar saying that he was just doing card tricks. From my friends in the casino biz (all over the country), I heard that Darwin no longer does consulting because no one will hire him.
kerpa
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Michael Miller
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I'll tell you who is better for gambling demonstrations between Sal or Darwin.

It's (drum roll) ....
Simon Lovell!!

:)
Just kidding. I like all 3 and have used tricks from each of their DVDs.

kerpa
a/k/a Michael Miller
Michael Miller
(Michael Merlin: original family --and stage-- name)
Mr.Tweed
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Quote:
On 2005-11-09 21:32, mook wrote:
John, you would actually be wrong about Sal coming on the scene in the late 90's. At least as far as the casino consulting. He turned 21 (in the 80's)while working in an A.C. casino & shortly after, began contracting w/different casino consulting cos. to do lectures. & while I don't knock Darwin (I don't know him), I have seen his casino lecture, which I found quite boring. Darwin's mngr did a good job getting him gigs, but Sal's many clients (worldwide) are from referrals. Sal moved back to NY (when he worked as a doorman), but still did consulting. So to set the record straight- Sal is not new to the scene. From what I hear, a Casino manager walked out of Darwin's seminar saying that he was just doing card tricks. From my friends in the casino biz (all over the country), I heard that Darwin no longer does consulting because no one will hire him.


You say you don't knock people, but you should reread this and your other posts, you're pretty good at it without even knowing it.

Business can't have been that good for Piacente if he had to go back to opening doors for folks. But a casino consultant with experience as a busboy will always have something to do in the downtimes and I hear the tips are good.

I'm not knocking him, though, I enjoyed his card trick DVDs even if some of the less charitable people on this site say most of the stuff was someone else's.

All the best in magic,

John Corey
Too lazy to work, too nervous to steal.
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